Now see how simple that was Darius? Thank you. I have little if any problem with those posting on here that don't believe the way the church does or I do. My problem is when people won't state what they believe and beat around the bush about it. If someone believes in something they should be strong enough to state those beliefs in plain and simple language so that we might all understand that persons belief.

Redfog

Darius, are you contending that Satan did not lie (with intent to decieve) when he told Eve "you shall not surely die"? Are you contending that God lied when he told Adam "...in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (with intent to decieve)?

Please don’t make accusations of my motives in asking. I just want to know where you stand. I ask two yes or no questions. Please respond accordingly, but explanations acompanying your yes's or no's would be pudding.

Jeff

Jeff, Lucifer's goal was to further his rebellion by wresting control of earth and its inhabitants. But that is not the issue here. If you are going to say that he lied you need to show what he said that was a lie. The closest you get is his response to Eve but that was based on the facts as they related to him. Disputing what someone says does not qualify as lying. It simply reflects a difference of opinion.

Redfog, if you think that was simple you have another think coming. Please note that while you know what I don't believe you cannot claim to know what I believe.

Darius I'm sure that it was hard to go against what you may have been brought up to believe. (Assuming you are or were a traditional Christian or SDA) And no I have no idea what you might believe concerning our origins however at least we now know what you don't believe. It gives us a little something to build on in various discussions.

Redfog

So from your post may I assume that the answer to both questions is that no one lied?

Darius, you don’t get to have it both ways. You can’t say that Eve was deceived (which you have said) and say that the serpent didn’t deceive her. The serpent told “technical” truths that led Eve to believe the wrong things. It is clear from the text that this was intentional. That is lying by definition. The serpent made Eve believe that there were no consequences to eating the fruit. She’s dead now as a direct result of eating the fruit. The serpent lied. This fact should be assumed as a tautology.

Also, the serpent misrepresented God’s character by implying that God was holding back something from Eve that she had a right to have. This is also a form of lying.

Also, the fact that God held the serpent responsible is further evidence of wrong-doing on his part, but moreover, the language used by God in the exchange with the serpent implies that the issue was the serpent’s deceptive tactics.

BTW, why was it so difficult for you to state your beliefs (or disbeliefs)? Sure, we may rebut what you say, or, in some cases, agree…or agree to disagree. But I see no personal harm done to anyone for simply stating religious beliefs on a religious forum. I’m not going to egg your house or have you arrested or anything. We’re just discussing ideas.

Jeff

The only reason to tell a lie is to deceive. All lies are deception.

The dictionary definition of deceive is "to make a person believe that which is not true".

Lie, "to make a statement one knows is false" and "a false statement made with intent to deceive"

Clearly Satan meant to deceive (or lie) and clearly Eve was deceived into believing the lie. You can tell the 100% truth but still lie.

Redfog