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Re: It has been done!
#20613
03/15/06 08:42 PM
03/15/06 08:42 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Tom, to save means to rescue. The human race did not rebel; it was kidnapped by the enemy. All Jesus came to do was to take his human race back. I suspect he would have done it much earlier if man had not foolishly tried to aid in his rescue by creating religions, thus increasing the confusion about the nature of Christ. Your example of Lincoln is correct. All the slaves were emancipated, including those from news was kept. When we tell people that they are not saved we are acting like those slave-owners who refused to pass on the news of Emancipation.
I agree! (provided we have an understanding of "saved" as "emancipated" as per the analogy).
The good news for the slaves was not, "If you believe, you will be freed" but the simple, "You are free!"
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Re: It has been done!
#20614
03/15/06 08:56 PM
03/15/06 08:56 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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By golly, he's got it. What the church has not realized is that when each week you convince freed people that they are slaves they will automatically act the part. Then next week we go on the pulpit and act surprised at the results. For some reason we prefer to dispense good advice on how they can get saved (whatever that entails) instead of proclaiming the good news that they have already been saved. I think it has to do with being able to feel that we are ahead of them because we accomplished what they have not yet accomplished. The good news puts us at the same point.
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Re: It has been done!
#20615
03/15/06 09:20 PM
03/15/06 09:20 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Darius,
To be honest, the question I am really asking right now is why I bother to ask at all in this thread since your not going to even pretend to give answeres anyway. When I want to know what the bible teaches I search in the bible. Here I wanted to know what you are teaching but it still apears this is vasted effort.
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Re: It has been done!
#20616
03/15/06 09:28 PM
03/15/06 09:28 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
I think it has to do with being able to feel that we are ahead of them because we accomplished what they have not yet accomplished. The good news puts us at the same point.
This is true too. Sadly so.
Luther said, "We are made of the same mud."
Ellen White said, "Righteousness by faith lays the glory of man in the dust."
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Re: It has been done!
#20617
03/15/06 09:32 PM
03/15/06 09:32 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Thomas, using the word "emanicipated" or "freed," a person is freed from the condemnation and guilt which came upon the race through Adam and freed to the ability to choose eternal life or eternal death.
To quote Ellen White, "Christ signed the emancipation papers of the human race with His blood."
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Re: It has been done!
#20618
03/15/06 09:58 PM
03/15/06 09:58 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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If forensic salvation was the topic of study, this thread should have started in Romans 5. We find there that Jesus bought back the race, regardless of personal choice. But since it started with Matt 1:21, Bro Thomas' question is central.
Even if everyone has been legally emancipated, those who choose to be "dead in trespasses and sins" have not been saved from their sins, and are still dead.
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Re: It has been done!
#20619
03/15/06 10:01 PM
03/15/06 10:01 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Arnold, what makes you think there are different models of the same Plan of Salvation all leading to different conclusions?
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Re: It has been done!
#20620
03/15/06 10:09 PM
03/15/06 10:09 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote:
Mat 24: 45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 48But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' 49and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Please explain this parable in light of the plan of salvation.
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Re: It has been done!
#20621
03/15/06 10:24 PM
03/15/06 10:24 PM
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SDA
Active Member 2023
5500+ Member
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,642
California, USA
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quote:
Originally posted by Darius:
Arnold, what makes you think there are different models of the same Plan of Salvation all leading to different conclusions?
Bro Darius,
What makes you think I think there are "different models of the same Plan of Salvation"?
There is one plan, there is one conclusion. I do not believe some people are "saved" and go to Heaven, while some people are "saved" and go somewhere else. The plan of salvation is a comprehensive package that solves the problem of selfishness; it is not a buffet line where you can pick and choose which part you like.
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Re: It has been done!
#20622
03/16/06 11:54 AM
03/16/06 11:54 AM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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I asked that question, Arnold, because you seemed to imply that it makes a difference to the outcome if one began at Rom. 5 or Matt. 1:20. The Plan of Salvation is what it is so your opinion is only a matter of academic interest. The Creator is in charge and He knows what is needed.
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