Yes it did, although I have a lot of other thoughs about that program. Maybe you should start a topic on it Daryl.

I prefer to have clapping in the church, only if it is done so in the same manner as "AMEN's": that is to say that the direction of the praise is "upward" to Him and not just for the praise of people.
ALSO: it is better to have clapping in the church by hands that are worshipping God: than to have no hands in the church!

Remember when our church began 150 years ago or so, there was no clapping and the church was blessed and grew by leaps and bounds. It is only since the Penticostal movement started in this country that we started clapping in church.

Go back a few years and people were won to the church because of TRUTH being taught, not to be entertained!!!!! And to clap was considered worldly and showed a lack of reverence.

God has not changed!

"Some ministers of ability who are now preaching present truth, love approvation. Applause stimulates them, as the glass of wine does the inebriate. Place these ministers where they have a small congregation which promises no special excitement and which provokes no decided opposition, and they will lose their interest and zeal, and appear as languid in the work as the inebriate when he is deprived of his dram. These men will fail to make real, practical laborers until they learn to labor without the ecitement of applause." 3T 185-186

If you will notice in the above quote, Mrs. White is talking of ministers who are NOW preaching present truth! Applause or clapping does more harm than good! We need to stay away from it.

So Debbie, do you think this applies to all ministers and/or in all situations within the church?

You have said,"God has not changed!" Quite true, and nobody is disputing that. But we are not talking about God's character or His very nature. This talking about how people relate to God and one another and how they express their praise, approval, reverence, etc. in the context of those relzationships.

Would you concede that with that in mind that we must relate to God in the very same manner with the very same forms of behavior and the very same ways of expressing our praise, love and respect for God as was done from the very begining of time as recorded in Scripture?

Incidently, I would question your recall of history and the corelations you seem to be implying. You imply that the clappin Adventists churches corresponded with the begining of the Pentecostal movement in this country. If that were true, we would have been clapping for most of our history. You also seem to imply that our growth was rebust before clapping asuch began and consequently stagnated as we adopted such practices within our churches. The growth in NAD has been stagnant for quite a few decades now, pretty much for the lifetime of this old man. The clapping, more open service styles and formats has only begun to take hold in the Adventist Church, generously within the last 10-15 years. During that same time period there are signs of blossoming growth, particularly where such behavior is accepted as normal. And your observation clearly does not account for the fact that tremondous growth within the Church is happening within cultures, both here and overseas, where such behavior is, and has been for a long time, OK and not even questioned.

By the way, in answer to my questions, consider that the word "some" opens the quote, and that I have witness the same response by minister to hearty amens and have see speakers milking the audience for more amens. And if you are hesitating about the concession I ahve asked for, ask yourself, why you wear shoes in the sanctuary, or whether you,as a woman, tay in the back or completely separate section apart from the men, or when the last time you spoke up in SS class or spoke from the pulpit, or how many female heads, including the face, do you see covered in church, or....

God does not change in character and his very nature, but people do and God does change th eways in which he reaches out to us and his expectations of how we reach out to him. Think about it.

Tom

In the quote from the SOP concerning applause, it says "Some ministers" and if you will look at the whole sentence, she is speaking only of those who have a PROBLEM with approbation who are actually addicted to applause because obviously self is in the limelight.

If you will read the whole quote, you will find that Mrs. White says these same ministers will FAIL in their work as ministers of the gospel until they learn to work without men's applause.

Our church back in Sister White's day did not use applause. I don't need to prove this because it is in her writings. What people want to do with these quotes, reject them or accepting them, has nothing to do with the validity of the quotes.

As for me, I believe the Spirit of Prophecy to be inspired and I will follow them.

"God requires all to do with faithfulness the duties of today. This is much neglected by the larger share of professed Christians. Especially is present duty lost sight of by the class I have mentioned, who imagine that they are of a finer order of beings than their fellow mortals around them. The fact that their minds turn in this channel is proof that they are of an inferior order, narrow, conceited, and selfish. They feel high above the lowly and humble poor, such as Jesus says He has called. They are forever trying to secure position, to gain applause, to obtain credit for doing some great work that others cannot do. But it disturbs the fine grain of their refined organism to associate with the humble, the unfortunate. They mistake the reason altogether. The reason why they shun any of these duties not so agreeable is found in their supreme selfishness. Dear self is the center of all their actions and motives." 2T 467-468.

In other places Sister White says we are not to flatter men. She says "self is easily exalted, and, in consequence, persons lose their balance." She goes on to say it is never safe by WORD OR ACTION to exalt a brother. She says "there are few who can bear praise without being injured."

If you go to the CD-rom and put in the word "applause" you will find plenty in which to see that it is not something to value.

ChL 73:1
EW 107:1
GW 111
GW 275:2
GC 40:1
HP 68:5
SW 17:2

The above are just a few references one can look up to find out what God thinks of applause.

There is not one word in the SOP that favors applause. She speaks of it in reference to worldly things, not heavenly.

-Interesting point Daryl. I understand it to be "clapping with JOY for the Lord".
-The scriptures also give instruction for us to "lift holy hands to the Lord", is this also a tabu in the SDA church, maybe a bit to "Penticostal"?
- Maybe I am misunderstanding but is "applause" the same as "clapping"?

Debbie,

I am quite familair with and understand the EGW statements, in their full context. I am not so sure that you do.

Now would you please actually answer the questions I asked? And while you are at it, explain how we are to understand the text Daryl posted.

Tom

Clapping in North America is associated with a good punchline from a comedian, a standing ovation at a concert, and also to commend someone as in a job well done which can show respect to the person who receives the applause by his or her peers.
The bottom line is that we are talking about clapping in church where we worship God, and where we should and need to show respect and reverance, and this is something rather interesting where tact and timing need to be considered. I have seen it at church recently, and always asked myself what ever happened to the 'Amen!'?
God Bless,
Will