Thomas that is my point, church culture and secular culture are and should be different. As I see it clapping is secular culture infiltrating sacred culture. Maybe there are churches where the preachers do call for clapping for the Lord, but are they really clapping for the Lord or clapping to the preacher for what he has just said? I'm not the one who can judge however I know that from my fairly traditional SDA background in the US that clapping was always associated with a performance of some sort and the clapping was directed to the performer. Even in our conservative church clapping has made very slight inroads and always it is after a outstanding musical piece and never seems directed at anyone other than the performer. If you watch the people clapping they are looking right at the performer, they are not looking up like to God or down as in prayer, they are directing their praise to the performer.

"Be still, and know that I AM God" Psalm 46:10

Redfog

Dave

Youve not seen it and Ive not seen it, however Ive heard it happen. Praise the Lord by clapping. If you would ever vissit a church where people are clapping after the reading of scripture, will you say to those people that they are insincere in their praise? Will you say that they are irreverent in their praise? I couldnt do that for I cannot read hearts. What about you?

Redfrog

My point is that there are different church cultures. Even though we are both SDAs, I wouldnt be supprised if there is some cultural differences between your church and mine simply becourse they are in different countries.

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Maybe there are churches where the preachers do call for clapping for the Lord, but are they really clapping for the Lord or clapping to the preacher for what he has just said?

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This is a very good question. It seems your default answere would be that they are clapping to the preacher. Next time you hear a solid "Amen" said in your church, take a look at the people, are they looking at the preacher or are they looking towards heaven? Are they giving a spoken clapping to God or to the preacher?

/Thomas

I think that most people are sincear; but I also think that many people are misguided.

Thomas you do make some good points about cultures and the SDA church. Even here in the US there are differences from area to area in how things are done.

While it is true that when a person says "amen" they are also looking at the speaker (or singer) I think it is also true that those saying it are simply saying they agree with what is being said. And I've never been to a secular event and heard anyone say amen!

Clapping in this context is applauding and applauding, according to my dictionary means "to praise".

Amen means "it is so".

I wonder if on this issue it is not better to err on the side of caution. This is not like the women's ordination issue. I've never heard of anyone being called into clapping

Redfog

I have to say that I have done and supported things which I later came to believe were wrong. We are all learning as we go along. Sometimes we just go along because everyone is doing it so it must be alright; we don't give it any thought. We need to pray for guidance on these issues.

Jan , you are so right... I have sat in church for years and not said boo to many preachers and speakers about the word that they have presented. For many years I have sat in my pew and not verbalized very much durring church, not clapped, not done too much at all with the exception of "being there". Now I am a verbal, expressive person, and when I clap or say amen or say "that's right", etc...
-BY NO MEANS do I respond in church by saying Amen out loud when the preacher coaxes "and everone said ____??? I find being prompted to say amen, clap etc... as not beiong needed, but guess what! That is just my "opinion" ...

Can I hear an amen???

no amen's ??

Neither do I say anything when the Preacher is preaching the sermon. Sometimes I will say a quiet "amen" but that is all. Often we are too busy looking up Bible texts.

But after the sermon, I nearly always let the Pastor know that I appreciated his sermon. At the very least, I will thank him for it.

There does not need to be any response necessarily--often just eye contact with the speaker lets him know that we are listening to what he has to say. And if one is wearing a smile occasionally, this also let's him know that we are responding to what he is saying. And if we are busy looking up in our Bibles the texts of the study that he presents, this also lets him know that we are awake and listening.

But unfortunately it seems easy for some people to nod off during the sermon. Some churches have this problem worse than others. I cannot imagine speaking to many people in church and seeing them nodding off while I am speaking. Seems such an insult to the Speaker.

There is something worse than a church that has the sounds of clapping! A church that has no sound at all.

Beachbum...

quote:

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Originally posted by Beachbum:
There is something worse than a church that has the sounds of clapping! A church that has no sound at all.

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That snappy little saying might sound cute but that doesnt necessarily make it so.


When the Church lacks true godliness it feels the need to supply the vaccuum with a false glitter so as to cover up the embarrasing silence.

When the Catholic Church lacks a true connection with God it feels the need to replace it with all manner of false substitutes such as saying the rosary, candles, crosses all over the place, repetitive prayers, and so on...

The things that fill up the vaccuum be it more noise or whatever, do not necessarily indicate the Church is better off...


Luke 11:
23: He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24: When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25: And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26: Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.


If Jesus and His presence are lacking in the church and He is made to "stand outside the door, knocking" for admittance... the solution isnt to supply the lack with all sorts of ornamentals and artificial excitement. The solution is to let Jesus in. And to obtain the things He says are lacking.


Revelation 3:
17: Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19: As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Claudia