Ikan, here's what I mean:

GC 589-591
Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows… Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them. {GC 589.2}

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast... {GC 589.3}

... It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity... {GC 590.1}

... {GC 590.2}

... While Satan seeks to destroy those who honor God's law, he will cause them to be accused as lawbreakers, as men who are dishonoring God and bringing judgments upon the world. {GC 591.1}

Of course, none of these insights imply that we should not do all we can to help people affected by disaster and devastation. Please, do whatever you can to help. Donating to ADRA is a perfect way to help. A link to ADRA is posted above. Thank you.

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[ January 01, 2005, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

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[ January 01, 2005, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Doug Meister ]

I'm sorry Doug. But you are wrong.

Great Controversy P.516

Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the labratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from thsoe who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.

While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornatdoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in eery place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by hte pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people...do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof;because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."Isa.24:4,5

Doug Have you changed your opinion since you wrote this about EGW on another topic?
Originally posted by Doug Meister:
Tom, EGW was a prophet of God, but many times she uses her imagination and embellishes things.

It sounded, in that topic that you felt like EGW sorta stretched things too creatively for your tastes....but perhaps I have misunderstood what you really meant.

John Perfectly wonderful references; thanks!

Wendy F. Bull's eye! and long time no see!

Mike Since we are not in the time of MOB yet, perhaps we should not mix future events with present ones. Tends to confuse, don't you think?

Yes, of course God "allows"; but this in no way means that He is in any sort of partnership with Satan. It is not God sicking the Devil on people; rather isn't it that people have so rejected God that He has "allowed" them to have what they want? And Satan is more than willing to give them every hateful desire and destructive propensity they crave. It matters not whether they are pagans or nominal christians; God will leave them to what they want, if they demand it, and Satan fills in the vacuum.

Once anyone leaves the protection offered by God, whether the barest minimum given to every soul born, or the fullest Truth of the Gospel of Jesus...if anyone refuses the Light, they subject themselves to Satan and his invention...sin and destruction.

Doug, I agree floods, earthquakes, forest fires, tornadoes, etc. are natural occurrences, and can be explained by scientists, but I find it interesting that you can read what Sister White wrote about Satan and natural disasters and still believe he has nothing to do with it.

Ikan, according to Sister White all the natural disasters that devastate populated areas are the result of rejecting or neglecting God and the ensuing wickedness. We agree on this point. Is it wrong to relate this insight to the MOB crisis? Again, according to Sister White it all fits within the great controversy, and tends toward Sunday legislation. Not too confusing.

Is Satan obeying God? It would appear that whenever God allows Satan to spread devastation and desolation he doesn't say, No thanks. Rather, he never passes up the opportunity. He always acts out what God permits. In fact, holy angels are on the scene to make sure evil angels stay within the limits God established. Does God sick Satan on sinners? No, of course not. God holds him back, until He sees fit to punish them, and then He unleashes the Devil.

GC 614
The same destructive power exercised by holy angels when God commands, will be exercised by evil angels when He permits. There are forces now ready, and only waiting the divine permission, to spread desolation everywhere. {GC 614.2}

GC 589
It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. {GC 589.2}

An interesting phenomenon amidst all the disaster --

quote:

---

Wildlife officials in Sri Lanka expressed surprise Wednesday that they found no evidence of large-scale animal deaths from the weekend's massive tsunami — indicating that animals may have sensed the wave coming and fled to higher ground.

An Associated Press photographer who flew over Sri Lanka's Yala National Park in an air force helicopter saw abundant wildlife, including elephants, buffalo, deer, and not a single animal corpse.

---

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/29/world/main663787.shtml

Once again the critters are smarter than the people are, sadly.

Reading that article, this passage dealing with Noah's Flood came to mind:

"Some of the people bound their children and themselves upon powerful animals, knowing that these were tenacious of life, and would climb to the highest points to escape the rising waters."
{PP 100.2}

Mike Everything on this forum deals with the great controversy, yet we need to stay on track, subject by subject, line upon line, here a little there a little. Please feel free to open a topic on the MOB if you like; I'll be happy to post there, too!

Let's look at the whys and wherefors of the deaths and devastations to so many non-christian peoples:

I think the keys are in this quote Mike provided.

"GC 589
It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would--He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. {GC 589.2}

Note in line 1 and 2 she writes of all of God's creatures first, than focuses on the "Christian world".

The effected nations in this horror are not, by any stretch of the imagination, a part of the Christian world. They are Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and have barely been dented by the Gospel, in spite of over 200 years of christian missionary outreach. (See the 1888 GC page 288... This is re-enforced by the efforts of early Adventist mission, headed by Dr. Hare in these effected areas. The impact of the Truth has been numerically very very tiny.)

So some questions:

1)How possible is it that these nations have "filled up their cup of iniquity" and passed a mark, which allows evil to do what it did on Christmas day there?

2) If this is so, how much more will so-called christian nations, PRIOR to any civil legislation regarding Sunday, suffer even worse disasters?

3) If God allows Satan to work out His evil cravings for blood on the ignorant, are not the knowing (those who claim to love Jesus) vulnerable to worse attacks?

The Faith I Live By
Chapter 11
The Strange Act of God

For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Isa. 28:21. {FLB 338.1}

With unerring accuracy the Infinite One still keeps an account with all nations. While His mercy is tendered, with calls to repentance, this account will remain open; but when the figures reach a certain amount which God has fixed, the ministry of His wrath commences. The account is closed. Divine patience ceases. There is no more pleading of mercy in their behalf. {FLB 338.2}

The prophet, looking down the ages, had this time presented before his vision. The nations of this age have been the recipients of unprecedented mercies. . . . But increased pride, covetousness, idolatry, contempt of God, and base ingratitude are written against them. They are fast closing up their account with God. . . . {FLB 338.3}

The crisis is fast approaching. The rapidly swelling figures show that the time for God's visitation has about come. {FLB 338.4}

To our merciful God the act of punishment is a strange act. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." Eze. 33:11. . . . Yet He will "by no means clear the guilty." "The Lord is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked." Ex. 34:6, 7; Nahum 1:3. By terrible things in righteousness He will vindicate the authority of His downtrodden law. The severity of the retribution awaiting the transgressor may be judged by the Lord's reluctance to execute justice. The nation with which He bears long, and which He will not smite until it has filled up the measure of its iniquity in God's account, will finally drink the cup of wrath unmixed with mercy. {FLB 338.5}

After God has done all that could be done to save men, if they still show by their lives that they slight offered mercy, death will be their portion; and it will be a dreadful death, for they will have to feel the agony that Christ felt upon the cross. They will then realize what they have lost--eternal life and the immortal inheritance. {FLB 338.6}