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A Bible Definition of "Sin"

We want to understand what the Bible definition of sin is--not just the New Testament or just the Old Testament. Some are in the habit of looking only at what the New Testament says. That's bad theology. The Word must be rightly divided (2 Timothy 2:15 ). It must be rightly understood, rightly weighed. A good principle of Bible interpretation is to pay close attention to the first occurrence of any principle in its pages, but then continue also through all its texts. Let's try it and see what happens.

Genesis 2:16

Turn with me to Genesis 2:16. There we find God's explicit command to the man not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. After Adam had eaten it (Genesis 2:17; Genesis 3:6, 11), God reminds him again that He had given him a command. That Adam sinned is confirmed both by the New Testament (Romans 5:14), and by the fact of Adam's punishment for disobeying (Genesis 3:17-19; Genesis 5:5). But why didn't Adam die the same day that he sinned? Or did he? We'll take a moment with that in our next meeting. But notice here that God gave a command, man disobeyed, and the result was punishment for a violation of the universe's moral code. Sin is disobedience to God.

Genesis 4:3-8

The very next time we find sin in the Bible is the murder of Abel by his brother Cain. Turn with me to Genesis 4:3-8:

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

A very sad story: almost the first murder (yes, there was one before this that we'll hear about in our next meeting). But I hope that you paid close attention to that seventh verse: "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

First, Cain had disobeyed; he had not brought with him the offering that God had required. Really, he had already sinned in that, for he had willfully disobeyed. But something else was also escalating: his anger. God saw that, and sought to help him. He sought to reason with him. "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?" Heaven tried to reason with Cain. God sought to show him how unjustified was his anger. But not only that; also, the necessity of his gaining the victory. Look again at the last part of the verse: "And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him . . ."

Just here is a critical point. "Unto thee shall be his desire," said God. Here, sin is very closely identified with Satan. Make no mistake; Satan is the author of sin and all its results. On one occasion Jesus told Peter that Satan desired to sift him like wheat (Luke 22:31). Satan had tried the same thing with Cain. But although sin is very closely identified with Satan, Cain's choice to sin was not the devil's to make, it was Cain's to make.

This verse has the Bible's first literal use of the word "sin." It likens sin to something alive and almost autonomous--almost self-choosing. But only "almost." Why is it only almost? From the very beginning of Scripture, sin has to do with choice. Notice the hierarchy of control. "And unto thee shall be his ["sin" in figure] desire. But you shall rule over him." Don't miss this: to fallen man, God says victory is possible. Knowing how Cain, born after the fall, was wired--knowing that his faculties were sharply impacted by sin--that he, like everyone "born of a woman" is born "without strength" (Romans 5:6), God urges Cain onward to present victory over sin.

Deuteronomy 24:16

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." We have a tendency to distance ourselves from responsibility for our own sin. Back in the 1970's a certain television comedian became known for a snappy saying: "The devil made me do it." That line evoked a great deal of laughter. But friends, the devil can't make you do anything. He can tempt you, but choice rests with you. Sometimes someone on trial for murder will plead that he was not responsible for something he did while under the influence of drugs. But really, he became responsible the moment that he chose to take a substance into his body that would cause him to lose his inhibitions and his capacity to control his actions. The death penalty is here (Deuteronomy 24) applicable only to the individual(s) directly responsible for the crime of murder.

It is an important principle to keep in mind that each of us are personally responsible for our own sins. Responsibility cannot be transferred. Punishment for sin is always a personal matter, and (at the human level) is non-transferable.

Ezekiel 18:19-21

Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Like Deuteronomy 24:16 , this passage insists again that sin is not transmittable through genetic or familial means. A descendent of a car thief is himself not a car thief, unless he too steals automobiles. So here is good news: you won't be punished for your parent's sins, or your grandparent's sins, or your great-grandparent's sins, etc. You'll be punished for your own sins, or better yet, you'll "turn from all your sins which you have committed," and surely live.

"But," you say, "I always understood that we are all guilty through Adam's first sin." We're going to talk about that in a few minutes friends. But for now hold on, because we aren't here to cheapen anything. Keep this in mind: we each have enough of our own sins to most thoroughly condemn, without even starting to add Adam's transgressions into the mix. No man (but Christ) has ever lived who did not deserve eternal death for the long dark list of his own sins. This passage teaches that our actions demonstrate concrete evidence of our inward attitude toward sin. The inward attitude condemns or vindicates us, but the outward actions reveal what's inside. The guilt of sin doesn't pass on from person to person through their DNA.

John 9:39-41

"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with Him heard these words, and said unto Him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." When we unknowingly do what is wrong, we are not condemned. This is the teaching of Jesus. "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin." But when our eyes are opened, then our sin remains. When it is revealed to us that something is sin, then we become morally accountable in regard to it.

"Well," you say, "then I will make sure I stay far away from any Bible or religious meetings!" Nice try. But Jesus also said of the Holy Spirit, "And when He is come, He will reprove the of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment [justice]" (John 16:8). Friends, I want you to know that the Holy Spirit is no dupe. You cannot lie to Him (Acts 5:3-4). He is not interested in our "parsing" of fine legal language and rationalizations and excuses for our sins. The Word of God "is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12). Jesus' mission is such that it is calculated to reveal "the thoughts of many hearts," (Luke 2:25), and it reveals yours too. God's judgment is not according to appearance, but according to righteous judgment (John 7:26 ). You can't put one over on God.

If someone tells you that you can be a Christian and disobey God, you should be very careful. Remember, we read the special Bible warning of false teachers to come in the last days. Take advantage of every opportunity for becoming acquainted with the truth. If, when the truth might have been yours, you conscientiously believe a lie, that fact won't save you. You can be saved in honest obedience to the truth; but if God grants to you the privilege of knowing and obeying the truth, and you neglect so great salvation, your very privileges will be recorded against you, to appear for your condemnation in the judgment. We'll all be without excuse if we fail to appropriate the promises of God and let Jesus change us. You and I may be sure that ignorance is no excuse for error or sin when there is every opportunity to know the will of God. The Bible is within our reach, and God knows it is.

This passage says that sin requires our awareness (or potential awareness) in order to condemn us.

Romans 7:7

"What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Paul here directs us to the Ten Commandments in order to get our definition of sin. He says that he wouldn't have known what sin was unless the Ten Commandments told him. The example he gives is the tenth commandment. This is pretty plain teaching, friends. To disobey God's law is to sin.

Romans 14:23

"Whatever is not of faith is sin." The situation we are in is desperate indeed. Our human nature has been ruined by the fall of our race. What God originally created "very good," has now been so terribly warped that we can do nothing on our own apart from God that isn't tainted with wicked motivations. That is to say that the best we can do, apart from God, is always laced with the poison of sin. If we would obey our Father, we must exercise faith in Him and His Son.

This verse informs us that everything we do must have its source in our faith in God or it will not be without sin.

James 1:14-15

Pay very close attention to what these verses say:

Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This is very important. Temptation is not sin. It just isn't. To be tempted is not to sin--not biblically. When you are tempted, and you resist by the power of God, then you haven't sinned. It is "when lust hath conceived" that it becomes sin.

Don't mistake inward and outward as being two different things. To lust for a woman in your heart is to sin, even if never outwardly expressed. It is a violation of God's law. It is just as certainly an act--simply one occuring instead on the inside. To suddenly be tempted to play with a tantalizing lustful thought, but through the grace of God to reject it and eject it from your mind in the emergency, is not to sin. Temptation is not sin; giving in to temptation is.

James 4:17

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." A sin of ommission is one where we know that we should take a positive action but we refuse to. That refusal to act, is sin. This doesn't mean any random occasion when we could invest our time in doing good but don't, but applies to occasions when plain that a specific action for good ought to be taken, and you don't take it. The key point here again is that moral knowledge and capacity to act make us accountable.

1 John 3:4

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." This is probably the clearest verse in all the Bible to help us in getting a hold of God's definition of sin. To sin is to go across the line, to "transgress" His law. Some Bible versions have translated this as "sin is lawlessness." That translation is also correct. The literal Greek reads, hamartia estin anomia,--"sin is no-law." That is, it is sin to go across the line of God's moral boundary, to transgress it. The Scriptures defining sin all sort themselves out in a very plain manner. Sin is the transgression of God's law.

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Bible Definitions of Sin Summarized

We may conclude our survey then, with these points:

1. Sin is disobedience to God.


2. God expects victory over sin. Even in our fallen nature we should (through His power) rule over it.


3. Punishment for sin is always a personal matter.


4. Guilt for sin is not transmitted from generation to generation, although the destructive impact resulting from sin continues from generation to generation.


5. Knowledge and awareness of sin requires our awareness (or opportunity for becoming aware) in order for it to condemn us.


6. To disobey God's law is sin.


7. What we do must be motivated by our faith in God, or it is tainted with sin.


8. Temptation is not sin; giving in to temptation is sin.

So how thoroughly was our nature impacted by the fall? Very thoroughly. But whatever weakness we received from our original parents through the fall as its result, our Lord also stands ready to give us His power to overcome it. Through the fall we are made to be "without strength" (Romans 5:6). But "where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Romans 5:20). Our nature is bad--it's ruined. But our Savior is good--He's ready to heal us. Tonight we have no excuses to linger any longer in sin. Instead, we should follow God's advice to Cain: "You should rule over it!"

(end pt 2)

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Original Sin?

You'll remember that at the beginning of tonight's presentation we read the prophecy that many false teachers would come at the end. We saw how they would teach a sin-and-live understanding of the gospel. We saw that God would let them take their pleasure in unrighteousness if they insisted on it, but that they would finally be destroyed. Now we've carefully reviewed how God defines sin. Let me ask you this question: do you think it's likely that fallen people would try to come up with another--any other--definition of sin, than what God said? Such a definition would inevitably--however it were formulated--try to open a door for people to keep sinning while thinking they were saved. Let's take the last part of this meeting then, and trace-out exactly what has happened on this point. Have you ever heard the phrase "original sin?"

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A Man Named Augustine

It comes from a teaching by the famous individual whom history calls St. Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo. Born in A. D. 354, the writings he left changed Christendom.

Augustine was a convert from Manichaeism, a non-Christian teaching insisting on a dualistic universe. He struggled with sexual temptations, and in the process became convinced that Adam and Eve's having sex had been the "original sin." He was a prolific writer, and after his death his writings exerted greater and greater influence. Among his teachings was what came to be known as the doctrine (the teaching) of "original sin."

Augustine taught that everyone ever born after the fall was, in fact, born guilty of Adam's sin. That is, not only Adam was guilty for the sin that he had chosen to commit, but that all of his descendents were also guilty of the sin that Adam alone had chosen to commit. If this sounds diametrically opposed to several of the Scriptures that we just studied, it is because it is! But this man was no dummy. He may have been wrong, but that didn't stop him from having a key verse to be wrong about. He centered his teaching on a text in the book of Romans. And we ought to turn there for a minute and take a look at it. It is Romans 5:12.

Working from the Latin Vulgate and not from the original Greek, Augustine followed Jerome's unfortunate translation of the verse. The verse in question, in King James, reads: "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Augustine though, built his arguments on the Latin version, in which the Greek phrase eph' ho is rendered "in him," so that the last part of the passage reads, "for in him all men sinned." Today, by scholars it is universally agreed that the proper translation of this phrase in this passage indeed is, as given in the KJV, "for that [or because] all have sinned." Indeed, if Paul had meant that all had sinned in Adam, he could have saved us all the problem by simply using the two words en Adam, ("in Adam"). Nonetheless, with the passage of years Augustine's ideas came to form the foundation of most of Christendom's understanding of what sin is.

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Luther and Calvin

Enter stage left two extraordinary men, to whom history owes much: Martin Luther and John Calvin. God used Luther as the lightening rod of the Protestant Reformation. But before that, he'd been a Catholic monk; he was a faithful son of his church. He had become, in fact, a monk of a certain order--an Augustinian monk!

What did this mean? Well, the short version is that before he'd scarcely seen a Bible, he'd read, reread, and re-reread, and re-re-reread, the voluminous writings of St. Augustine. The observation has been made that as Luther walked through those electrifying years of history, he was able to shed many of the errors that had entered the Roman Catholic Church since the time of Augustine, but almost none of the errors launched into Christianity by Augustine themselves. He persisted, until the day that he died, to believe much of what Augustine had taught--including original sin.

Luther also added a teaching to Christianity called simul justus et peccator--the teaching that Christians are, "at the same time both justified and a sinner;" that complete victory over sin was not possible for the Christian in this life. In other words, his teaching was a pre-curser to today's "sin-and-live" theology.

Calvin, the great organizer of the Reformed branch of Christian thought through his "Institutes" books, had also been a voracious consumer of Augustine's thought, as his numerous quotations from the Bishop of Hippo demonstrate. In short, while the Protestant Reformers came blazing along with much sound and timely reform, they didn't see and understand all their issues all at once. They were still coming forth from a tremendous fund of darkness; it shouldn't surprise us that they didn't get everything right. Now I don't want anyone to walk out of here tonight saying, "He bashed Luther and Calvin--the foremost of the Protestant Reformers!" Not at all. Actually, it was through them that many of the positive things we'll be sharing reached their main development. No. What we are trying to do here is simply to be straight. We can be lucid about what they saw clearly, while we need still to be lucid about what they didn't see clearly. If they were here today, it is altogether possible that they would see this issue--God's versus man's understanding of sin--"the axe of the ages" so to speak--much more clearly. We're not slamming these men. We honor their spirit of reform by responding to the light available in our own day, just as they did by responding to the light available in theirs.

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The Shape of Their Ideological Descendents In Our Day

So where have their descendents steered to today? Many Christians are stuck in the quicksand of an understanding of sin saying that during this present life we can never overcome. The result has been a declining Christianity playing in the sharp-edged toxic-waste of sin. Friends, there is a lot of sin going on today--a lot of it right in the church. There is a lot of cheapened Christianity palming itself off as the real thing. Why? In part because sin has been redefined as temptation. This unbiblical understanding raises the bar so high that anything less than the perfection of the infinite God is considered to be sin. Thus, God is the only one who can keep from sinning. We don't even have a chance. The end result is that because they've been taught this, many church-going folk don't even try to overcome sin any more. And they still think they are going to heaven.

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God's Goal For Us

You've seen it tonight friends, from the pages of God's Word. Jesus prophesied of false-teachers in the last-days. His Word said that they would heap up to themselves teachers that would preach a smooth theology, because they would have "itching ears" (2 Timothy 4:3). They would receive strange doctrines, and have their understanding of God's Word cut out from under them and replaced with a theology of fables. They would be taught that they could sin-and-live and still get to heaven--where the Bible declares that "nothing that defileth" shall enter in (Revelation 21:27).

In a very real sense, Augustine has never died--he lives on today through his false doctrine of original sin. But we're not trying to single out Augustine; if it hadn't been him, it just would have been someone else that would have been used to inject this idea into Christianity. Augustine planted the seed, and today the plant is spread over our planet like an out of control weed--a destructive virus insinuating itself into the way most Christians think about how they live.

God's goal for us today is to live in victory over sin; not under the condemnation incurred by breaking His holy Law. We must accept no substitutes. The issue of sin is the axe of the ages. We need to operate with God's definitions in mind and then overcome, or we can try to walk the Christian pathway with Satan's definitions as our working-model, failing ultimately of victory and of eternal life. Don't just blindly accept what you've been told. Study it. Know for yourself. There is a lot at stake; even eternal life. What a deception our foe has launched--one that seems so pious, and yet one defrauding us by removing even the possibility of victory. God has something better for us. Don't let Satan's last deceptions undo you; even now we are living under the time of their manifestation. Right now! But take this truth home tonight friends: Jesus is able to keep you from falling (Jude 23-24).

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Conclusion and Preview

I have to tell you that this false teaching on what sin is has led to the teaching of a false Christ. Don't miss our next meeting as we peek into Revelation 13 and see the real christ, the one that the lamb-like beast is trying to pass himself off as. Are you worshiping the true Jesus of Bible prophecy? Our next meeting is Behold the Lamb of God.

Good night everyone. See you at our next meeting. Now, let's close with prayer . . .

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[NOTE: be sure to read the companion document to this sermon, Misunderstood Texts on Sin.]

(end pt 3 of 3)

Hope this helps. God bless. LK

zyph,

Search for "only defintion sin" on the EGW CD-ROM, and you end up with 23 references where she says that the only definition of sin found in the Bible is "transgression of the law." I understand your suggestion about obedience and faith, but we still ahve these statements, which are explained by the grammatical principle I presented.

Dear Zyph,

Are you a Christian of the Presbyterian persuation?

Justin

[This message has been edited by Justin (edited May 29, 2001).]

The following quote of a post that zyph made should answer the question regarding zyph.

quote:

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zyph
Member (MSDAOL)

Posts: 72
From: Australia
Registered: Feb 2001
posted February 21, 2001 07:04 AM

I'm a baptised Seventh-day Adventist, but I haven't been to church regularly for about 11
years. I'm not a committed Christian at this time. I'm hoping to gain some inspiration via
the net. I am a deep thinker and crave the challenge and satisfaction of complex bible study. I'm single (divorced) with an adult son who suffers from ADD, 45 years old, and I work for a religious charity which assists homeless persons.
I encounter many people who want to discuss spiritual issues. I'm a former Sabbath School
superintendent, and senior Sabbath School teacher. I've had a couple of articles published in the Australasian Record, although that was years ago, now. I'm not looking at a list of the questions, but I hope I've given you enough information. Oh, I firmly believe Ellen White had the gift of prophecy, and have been moved by her writings
in a way no ordinary literature has achieved.
I'd like to be allowed to access as many forum areas as I can. Thank you very much. I'm feeling very impressed with this site.

---

There you have it. zyph is a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited May 29, 2001).]

Thanks, Daryl, for the information. I was hoping to hear directly from Zyph.

I myself was a Presbyterian before accepting the Adventist faith in 1985. That was after my vehemently resisting against Adventism for 7 years.

Zyph,

I guess you have much to read from Pastor Kirkpatrick's posts. Being an Adventist and recognizing the prophetic role of Ellen White should give us more common ground to talk about this basic question of "What is Sin?" and other related issues. If you were a Presbyterian, I thought that we might have to take different approaches to this question - from the Scriptural perspective - for the obvious reason.

I believe that our understanding (definition) of "what sin is" will take us to two totally difference paths to the belief of our salvation - which is the essential difference between Adventism and other popular Protestant and Roman Catholoc teaching. Yet, in most cases, I have found that many arguments against our Adventist understanding of "what sin is" stem from those sincere people's confusion between "Sin" and "Effects (or Curses) of Sin".

Hope to hear further from you on this forum.

God bless,

Justin

Wow! While you were sleeping...
I don't have enough time this morning to reply - or even to read and digest the information posted here. I promise to do that as soon as possible. But it has been an interesting exercise to be accused of Presbyterianism! (lol) Have you ever been talking to someone about religious things, and when they ask what religion you belong to, your stomach tightens, because you know that there will be a certain reaction when you say "Seventh-day Adventist"? Wouldn't it be nicer if they just listened to what you were saying? And addressed the points you were making?
I'm going to labour a point just now. If all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, then where is the qualifying text which says they haven't until they reach the age of accountability?
Pickle, I'm going to have to do more reading until I can respond. But often Ellen White's statements in a particular situation are taken in a general context, and thus the meaning is warped. I agree that sin is the transgression of the law, but the issue is much more complex for people born on this planet since Adam and Eve sinned, than obedience or disobedience. They ate a piece of fruit. If I struggle - and succeed - in not eating the piece of fruit today, that is NOT obedience. You can't have a definition that works forwards one way, and backwards another. If obedience is not a causative factor in our being saved, how can disobedience be a causative factor in us being lost? ("Not by works, lest any man should boast") THEREFORE - there must be something deeper in the sin thing.
I have to go now. But I'll get back.
Regards,
Zyph.

Remember the purpose of this study in this forum. We should have an answer ready for Presbyterians first in this topic, and also, of course for SDAs and anybody else.

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

Zyph,

RE: "If all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, then where is the qualifying text which says they haven't until they reach the age of accountability?"

The Romans 3:23 or 5:12 ("FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED") means what it says. It didn't say that all have INHERITED GUILT from Adam. It just says all have sinned on their own and are guilty thereof. Ezekiel 18:20 - "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father" should rightly qualify these verses.

Now, forgetting the age of accountability just for a moment, there are many texts in the Bible which indicates God's not holding man accountable for sins of ignorance. Isn't God merciful?

Leviticus 4:22-24 & 27-29

When a ruler hath sinned, and done somewhat through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD his God concerning things which should not be done, and is guilty; Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish: And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the goat, and kill it in the place where they kill the burnt offering before the LORD: it is a sin offering.

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

John 9:41

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

John 15:22

If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

Acts 17:30

And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent

James 4:17

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (This one directly links sin with one's knowledge and choice)

Therefore, I suggest, GUILT (condemnation) is not automatically incurred by a violation of God's law. Only when the act is WILLFUL rather than from ignorance, the violation will bring in the guilt. The attitude and will of the law breaker is the deciding factor here.

Now, going back to your question concerning "the age of accountability", my attitude is that all-knowing God knows when & for which acts for each child. We don't know and we shouldn't care except for our own selves. And He provided the justification and pardon when we come to the knowledge of our sin and repent.

On the definition of sin, Romans 14:23 - "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" - which you've quoted also defines sin as something of "doubt". Isn't this within the area of human consciousness and will - hence our choice?

Justin

Again, I won't have time to say much, as I have to go to work, but something seems obvious here. People seem to believe that if I believe everyone is born sinful, then they must be born guilty. But you will agree that sins committed ignorantly are not held against us - as in the examples Justin gave above. If a tree falls in the forest and there's no-one there to hear it, does it make a sound? If I commit a sin in ignorance, and it is not held against me, have I sinned? Surely Adam, in his perfection, couldn't commit a sin ignorantly. But we are not the same as Adam. Our spiritual natures - or whatever capacity you believe is dysfunctional - must be born again. There is something wrong with us that makes the grace of God necessary in order to obey. And we can only access that grace within a faith relationship with Him. For those who think relationship with God is a cliche, try spending time with Him in the way you spend time with your wives, husbands, friends, etc. The bible says we are privileged enough to know Him. In fact, one of the definitions of eternal life - or obtaining it - is that we know Him. We haven't just lost a vague capacity to obey. Our hearts are evil - at birth - and only God's intervention can change that. We sin because we are born with no capacity to do otherwise, and God doesn't hold us accountable for that. He holds us accountable when we understand what's needed, and fail to take the steps to connect with Him.
I feel I have to repeat this carefully:
Sin does not equal guilt. When I have spoken about sin, people seem to respond with statements about guilt. I really haven't had time to read through everything carefully - but I will by the weekend.
Daryl, I have felt uncomfortable about the dialogue here, mostly because I think it's the wrong venue. However, it is on the subject, and I hope it's okay. Please let us know if you'd rather we went elsewhere.
Kind regards to everyone,
Zyph.