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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38848
07/13/01 10:13 PM
07/13/01 10:13 PM
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Let us continue on to the next commandment as stated by them: quote:
13 - Which is the third commandment? A. The third commandment is, Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. (a) (a). Ex. 20:7; Deut. 5:11 14. What is required in the third commandment? A. The third commandment requireth the holy and reverend use of God's names, titles (a), attributes (b), ordinances (c), Word (d), and works (e). (a). Deut. 10:20; Ps. 29:2; Matt. 6:9
(b). I Chron. 29:10-13; Rev. 15:3-4
(c). Acts 2:42; I Cor. 11:27-28
(d). Ps. 138:2; Rev. 22:18-19
(e). Ps. 107:21-22; Rev. 4:11 15. What is forbidden in the third commandment? A. The third commandment forbiddeth all profaning or abusing of anything whereby God maketh himself known (a). (a). Lev. 19:12; Matt. 5:33-37; Jas. 5:12 16. What is the reason annexed to the third commandment? A. The reason annexed to the third commandment is, that however the breakers of this commandment may escape punishment from men, yet the Lord our God will not suffer them to escape his righteous judgment (a). (a). Deut. 28:58-59; ISam. 3:13; 4:11
Sounds clear to me. Any questions and/or comments? __________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl 
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38849
08/11/01 08:13 PM
08/11/01 08:13 PM
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Here is the next one: quote:
#17. Which is the fourth commandment? A. The fourth commandment is, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (a) (a). Ex. 20:8-11; Deut. 5:12-15 #18. What is required in the fourth commandment? A. The fourth commandment requireth the keeping holy to God such set times as he hath appointed in his Word; expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy sabbath to himself (a). (a). Ex. 31:13, 16-17 # 19. Which day of the seven hath God appointed to be the weekly sabbath? A. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, God appointed the seventh day of the week to be the weekly sabbath (a); and the first day of the week ever since, to continue to the end of the world, which is the Christian sabbath (b). (a). Gen. 2:2-3; Ex. 20:11
(b). Mark 2:27-28; Acts 20:7; ICor. 16:2; Rev. 1:10
Anybody have any thoughts on this belief of their's relating to the 4th Commandment? _________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace Daryl
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38850
09/14/01 12:57 AM
09/14/01 12:57 AM
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They correctly answered #17, however, they are obviously in error in their answers of #18 and #19 as the 4th Commandment is very clear on the day for all time, even into eternity. _________________________
In His Love,Mercy & Grace Daryl
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38851
09/23/01 11:37 PM
09/23/01 11:37 PM
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I would assume that they believe that the Ten Commandments were NOT abolished, therefore, how would you respond to their belief statements on the 4th Commandment? __________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38852
09/25/01 04:23 PM
09/25/01 04:23 PM
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#18. What is required in the fourth commandment? A. The fourth commandment requireth the keeping holy to God such set times as he hath appointed in his Word; expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy sabbath to himself (a). (a). Ex. 31:13, 16-17 |
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To this I would comment that it is true that we are to keep holy the times He has appointed in His Word; but that it is not simply a mere one day in seven. Rather, it is clearly spelled out that it is the seventh day. Nowhere in scriptures does God say, "Pick any one day of the seven." But He is always very specific in which day it is to be.
# 19. Which day of the seven hath God appointed to be the weekly sabbath? A. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, God appointed the seventh day of the week to be the weekly sabbath (a); and the first day of the week ever since, to continue to the end of the world, which is the Christian sabbath (b). (a). Gen. 2:2-3; Ex. 20:11
(b). Mark 2:27-28; Acts 20:7; ICor. 16:2; Rev. 1:10 |
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Here I would comment that it is true that from the beginning of the world, God appointed the seventh day of the week to be the weekly Sabbath, but that God never made the first day of the week holy, nor did He sanctify or bless it as He did for the seventh day at the time of creation.The commandment instructs is to KEEP the seventh day Sabbath holy; it does not say to make it holy. None of us can make anything holy; only God can.
My comment on Acts 20:7 is that there is nothing in this account of Acts 20 that indicates that this was a weekly worship service. The disciples came often together throughout the week to break bread; they broke bread every day, just as we also eat meals every day. They simply gathered to eat and Paul talked to them for a long time, because he was leaving the next day. It is simply described as the last meal together before Paul's departure, and after they ate, they continued to talk to each other for a long time.
Paul is often accused of changing the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day. However, what does scripture tell us about the day of worship which Paul observed? Acts 17:2, Acts 13:14, Acts 16:13, Acts 18:4 all tell us Paul worshipped on Sabbath, which scriptures clearly define as the seventh day (Exodus 20:10) My comment on 1 Cor 16:2 is that there is no description of worhship service taking place on the first day of the week. Paul was not even there. He simply suggested how they should go about taking up collections so that it would be all done when he did get there. Worship and collecting money are not synominous(sp?). Another additional point I would bring up is the following: If Christ's ressurection changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday, then why did Christ say what He did in Matthew 24:20?
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. |
|  Matthew 24:20 |
Here you can see that Christ saw the Sabbath in the future after His death. Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman armies and destroyed by Titus in AD 70. Why would Jesus encourage His disciples to pray that their flight be not on the Sabbath if at that time they wouldn't be keeping it?These two scriptures (Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor 16:2) are used to prove that God changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday, but neither of which describe a worship service. But there are numerous other scriptures throughout the Bible that talk about the Sabbath day of worship even past Christ's ressurection. - Jesus the Creator kept the Sabbath (Gen 2:2)
- Jesus made flesh kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16)
- Paul kept the Sabbath (Acts 17:2)
- The new Christian Converts kept the Sabbath (Acts 16:13, Acts 13:14, Acts 18:4)
- Even the Gentiles kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:42,44)
- We will keep the Sabbath in the New Earth and Heaven (Isaiah 66:22,23)
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. |
| Hevrews 13:8 |
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38853
09/25/01 09:09 PM
09/25/01 09:09 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,061
Australia
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DenBorg, I don't know if this is true, but I've heard that the city gates were locked on the Sabbath day, and that's why it was better if their flight didn't occur then. Since the city would still be Jewish, there was no reason to think that the day would be changed at that time. So-o-o, I don't think that particular thing is an argument for the Sabbath's continued existence. I DO believe the Sabbath day is stil the only day made especially holy by God. "...and the first day of the week ever since..." Ever since when??
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38854
09/26/01 12:42 PM
09/26/01 12:42 PM
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During a siege the gates of the city would be locked every day, not just on the Sabbath day. The key word was flight rather than being caught within any locked gates. Also, if the Sabbath was no longer to be kept, then there wouldn't have been any need to say what Christ did say. Those are my thoughts on it. __________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38855
10/01/01 08:42 AM
10/01/01 08:42 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,061
Australia
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Then what was special about fleeing on the Sabbath day, Daryl?
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38856
10/01/01 03:07 PM
10/01/01 03:07 PM
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"...and the first day of the week ever since..." Ever since when?? |
| quote: zyph |
Since the resurrection of Christ.Their (Presbyterians) belief statement is saying that the seventh day was the day of worship as assigned by God from creation to the resurrection of Christ. From the time of Christ's resurrection forward, God appointed the first day of the week as the holy day of worship.
Then what was special about fleeing on the Sabbath day, Daryl? |
| quote: zyph |
The Sabbath is a special day given to us by God so that we can rest in Him and commune with Him; kind of a taste of heaven while on earth.zyph, I'm certain you can see how fleeing for one's life can disrupt this rest. I don't know if you are married or not, zyph, but just imagine that you're married and are spending a special day with your wife (i.e. your anniversary). Then, right in the middle of your special time with your wife, your day is interrupted by some clamity which requires you to flee from your home so that your very lives may be spared. That would disrupt the special time you were spending with your wife, wouldn't it? By the same token, if the Jews had to flee for their lives on the Sabbath day, it would be disruptive of their special time with their Creator, Saviour, Redeemer, and Deliverer. Does that make sense to you?
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Re: Some Beliefs of the Presbyterian Church
#38857
10/02/01 01:14 AM
10/02/01 01:14 AM
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Excellent reply regarding the reason why Christ said to pray that our flight would not be on the Sabbath day. That is exactly what I was referring to. __________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl [This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited October 01, 2001).]
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