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Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42087
10/29/01 10:04 AM
10/29/01 10:04 AM
A
Andrew Marttinen  Offline OP
Pastor
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,471
Carleton Place, Ontario, Canad...
Sorry that this article is so long, but it did give me something to think about. In fact I'm still mulling it over in my mind. I'm not posting it because I agree what it says, but there's a balance here that I don't see from the American press. It seems that the British Press is finally getting fed up and seeing a few things "behind the curtain":

PILGER: HIDDEN AGENDA BEHIND WAR ON TERROR


By John Pilger, Former Mirror chief foreign correspondent

The war against terrorism is a fraud. After three weeks' bombing, not a single terrorist implicated in the attacks on America has been caught or killed in Afghanistan.

Instead, one of the poorest, most stricken nations has been terrorised by the most powerful - to the point where American pilots have run out of dubious "military" targets and are now destroying mud houses, a hospital, Red Cross warehouses, lorries carrying refugees.

Unlike the relentless pictures from New York, we are seeing almost nothing of this. Tony Blair has yet to tell us what the violent death of children - seven in one family - has to do with Osama bin Laden.

And why are cluster bombs being used? The British public should know about these bombs, which the RAF also uses. They spray hundreds of bomblets that have only one purpose; to kill and maim people. Those that do not explode lie on the ground like landmines, waiting for people to step on them.

If ever a weapon was designed specifically for acts of terrorism, this is it. I have seen the victims of American cluster weapons in other countries, such as the Laotian toddler who picked one up and had her right leg and face blown off. Be assured this is now happening in Afghanistan, in your name.

None of those directly involved in the September 11 atrocity was Afghani. Most were Saudis, who apparently did their planning and training in Germany and the United States.

The camps which the Taliban allowed bin Laden to use were emptied weeks ago. Moreover, the Taliban itself is a creation of the Americans and the British. In the 1980s, the tribal army that produced them was funded by the CIA and trained by the SAS to fight the Russians.

The hypocrisy does not stop there. When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal.

With secret US government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from Soviet central Asia through Afghanistan.

A US diplomat said: "The Taliban will probably develop like the Saudis did." He explained that Afghanistan would become an American oil colony, there would be huge profits for the West, no democracy and the legal persecution of women. "We can live with that," he said.

Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin, the greatest source of untapped fossil fuel on earth and enough, according to one estimate, to meet America's voracious energy needs for a generation. Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.

So, not surprisingly, US Secretary of State Colin Powell is now referring to "moderate" Taliban, who will join an American-sponsored "loose federation" to run Afghanistan. The "war on terrorism" is a cover for this: a means of achieving American strategic aims that lie behind the flag-waving facade of great power.

The Royal Marines, who will do the real dirty work, will be little more than mercenaries for Washington's imperial ambitions, not to mention the extraordinary pretensions of Blair himself. Having made Britain a target for terrorism with his bellicose "shoulder to shoulder" with Bush nonsense, he is now prepared to send troops to a battlefield where the goals are so uncertain that even the Chief of the Defence Staff says the conflict "could last 50 years".

The irresponsibility of this is breathtaking; the pressure on Pakistan alone could ignite an unprecedented crisis across the Indian sub-continent. Having reported many wars, I am always struck by the absurdity of effete politicians eager to wave farewell to young soldiers, but who themselves would not say boo to a Taliban goose.

In the days of gunboats, our imperial leaders covered their violence in the "morality" of their actions. Blair is no different. Like them, his selective moralising omits the most basic truth. Nothing justified the killing of innocent people in America on September 11, and nothing justifies the killing of innocent people anywhere else.

By killing innocents in Afghanistan, Blair and Bush stoop to the level of the criminal outrage in New York. Once you cluster bomb, "mistakes" and "blunders" are a pretence. Murder is murder, regardless of whether you crash a plane into a building or order and collude with it from the Oval Office and Downing Street.

If Blair was really opposed to all forms of terrorism, he would get Britain out of the arms trade. On the day of the twin towers attack, an "arms fair", selling weapons of terror (like cluster bombs and missiles) to assorted tyrants and human rights abusers, opened in London's Docklands with the full backing of the Blair government.

Britain's biggest arms customer is the medieval Saudi regime, which beheads heretics and spawned the religious fanaticism of the Taliban.

If he really wanted to demonstrate "the moral fibre of Britain", Blair would do everything in his power to lift the threat of violence in those parts of the world where there is great and justifiable grievance and anger.

He would do more than make gestures; he would demand that Israel ends its illegal occupation of Palestine and withdraw to its borders prior to the 1967 war, as ordered by the Security Council, of which Britain is a permanent member.

He would call for an end to the genocidal blockade which the UN - in reality, America and Britain - has imposed on the suffering people of Iraq for more than a decade, causing the deaths of half a million children under the age of five.

That's more deaths of infants every month than the number killed in the World Trade Center.

There are signs that Washington is about to extend its current "war" to Iraq; yet unknown to most of us, almost every day RAF and American aircraft already bomb Iraq. There are no headlines. There is nothing on the TV news. This terror is the longest-running Anglo-American bombing campaign since World War Two.

The Wall Street Journal reported that the US and Britain faced a "dilemma" in Iraq, because "few targets remain". "We're down to the last outhouse," said a US official. That was two years ago, and they're still bombing. The cost to the British taxpayer? £800 million so far.

According to an internal UN report, covering a five-month period, 41 per cent of the casualties are civilians. In northern Iraq, I met a woman whose husband and four children were among the deaths listed in the report. He was a shepherd, who was tending his sheep with his elderly father and his children when two planes attacked them, each making a sweep. It was an open valley; there were no military targets nearby.

"I want to see the pilot who did this," said the widow at the graveside of her entire family. For them, there was no service in St Paul's Cathedral with the Queen in attendance; no rock concert with Paul McCartney.

The tragedy of the Iraqis, and the Palestinians, and the Afghanis is a truth that is the very opposite of their caricatures in much of the Western media.

Far from being the terrorists of the world, the overwhelming majority of the Islamic peoples of the Middle East and south Asia have been its victims - victims largely of the West's exploitation of precious natural resources in or near their countries.

There is no war on terrorism. If there was, the Royal Marines and the SAS would be storming the beaches of Florida, where more CIA-funded terrorists, ex-Latin American dictators and torturers, are given refuge than anywhere on earth.

There is, however, a continuing war of the powerful against the powerless, with new excuses, new hidden agendas, new lies. Before another child dies violently, or quietly from starvation, before new fanatics are created in both the east and the west, it is time for the people of Britain to make their voices heard and to stop this fraudulent war - and to demand the kind of bold, imaginative non-violent initiatives that require real political courage.

The other day, the parents of Greg Rodriguez, a young man who died in the World Trade Center, said this: "We read enough of the news to sense that our government is heading in the direction of violent revenge, with the prospect of sons, daughters, parents, friends in distant lands dying, suffering, and nursing further grievances against us.

"It is not the way to go...not in our son's name."


------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42088
10/30/01 09:11 AM
10/30/01 09:11 AM
zyph  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,061
Australia
I've kept out of commenting on the United States because of the sensitivity of Americans to any perceived slight against their country. But why would this article surprise Seventh-day Adventists? We all know the evil perpetrated by governments for their own ends, particularly in the last days. And the anthrax? Any possibility of being self-inflicted for a sly reason? Now that America has declared war on "evil", who next is going to be regarded as evil? The processes set in place recently - not only in the U.S. - are steps toward a totalitarian state, where those who are out of step will be prevented from buying and selling. An Australian boxer has had his career ruined because he expressed his honest opinion about the events of September 11th, but that opinion offended Americans, who claim to defend free speech. You can freely express pornographic thoughts, but not political opinions which differ from the populist line. The tone is getting sinister, but like the frog sitting in the pot of water on the hotplate, some of us have been unaware that we (christians) are soon to be in very hot water.

Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42089
10/30/01 11:08 AM
10/30/01 11:08 AM
A
Andrew Marttinen  Offline OP
Pastor
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,471
Carleton Place, Ontario, Canad...
I hope this doesn't bend the topic too far off, but someone at a recent worker's meeting said "See how the Taliban treats women--that's a taste of how Sabbath-keepers will be treated at the end-time."

The way things are heading, I wouldn't be surprised if soon there will be no room for dissidents.

You don't have to point to some future time or bizarre regions of the world to see Taliban-type treatment.

My mother's family faithfully kept the Sabbath in Estonia in the middle of this last century. Even before war hit, those who didn't attend school on Saturday--well, you should hear what they had to endure.

My dad spent over a year in a European jail for his faith. By the way, these were not the type of prisons where the inmates rioted because they couldn't watch television after 10:30pm.

------------------
The great ships are safe in the harbour, but that's not what they were built for.


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42090
10/30/01 11:54 AM
10/30/01 11:54 AM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Does anyone remember that when Bush began talking about the "war on terror" he used the word crusades? Historically the crusades were wars begun by the papacy through the nations of Europe with the purpose of destroying/subjugating/coercing conversion to catholicism of the muslim people. They failed then. Will they fail this time? Revelation says "All the world wondered after the beast."

Muslims make up 20% of the world, about 1 billion people. For Rome to rule the world, those billion people must be brought into line. How to bring them to their knees? Use the most powerful nation on earth as your army [crusaders].

[This message has been edited by Linda Sutton (edited October 30, 2001).]


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42091
10/31/01 03:34 AM
10/31/01 03:34 AM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Zyph, I'm not offended by any remarks that are negative to the USA, but I am glad that you are sensitive to the fact that some may be. Those of us who are students of Bible prophecy understand that we are seeing America changing from the voice of a lamb-like beast to the roar of a dragon.

I sometimes go to the British papers and read for the different viewpoint and to read what is left out of the American press. While I don't really think that an oil pipeline is the reason for the present bombings, (see my previous post) I certainly don't believe it is entirely for the reasons we've been given. We are being given very little information on the news, and what video footage we see of devastation is coming from Al Jazerrah (sp?) television. If they really wanted to get rid of the terrorists, why didn't they send in the special forces? They are supposedly trained for just such operations.

On Friday, Congress passed the anti-terrorsim bill. With the president's signature, we lost some more of our freedoms and our rights to privacy. The things they will begin doing to those of Middle Eastern immigrants (especially those suspected of being connected to terrorist networks) in the US is just a foretaste of what will be done to those who obey God's law rather than the laws of Congress when Sunday legislation bills begin in this country.

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42092
10/31/01 01:14 AM
10/31/01 01:14 AM
Wendy F  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
USA
Good post Linda.

Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42093
10/31/01 02:01 AM
10/31/01 02:01 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
We are definitely in an interesting time!

Are we preparing for this interesting time?

Are we either prepared, or preparing for the final crisis?

__________________________
In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42094
11/02/01 02:43 PM
11/02/01 02:43 PM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Notice the wording Bin Laden uses in this news article about a letter he wrote.
Thursday November 1 12:34 PM ET

Bin Laden Urges Pakistanis to Defend Islam -Jazeera
DUBAI (Reuters) - Saudi-born militant Osama bin Laden issued a letter Thursday urging Pakistani Muslims to defend Islam against what he described as a Christian crusade, Qatar's al-Jazeera satellite television said.

The television showed a picture of the letter, handwritten in Arabic, which it said was signed by bin Laden. A copy of the letter, dated Thursday, was not immediately available.

"Osama bin Laden called on Muslims in Pakistan to stand in the face of what he called a Christian crusade against Islam," a Jazeera newsreader quoted the letter as saying.

"Muslims in Afghanistan are being subjected to killing and the Pakistani government is standing beneath the Christian banner," the letter said.

In Gaza, British Prime Minister Tony Blair voiced support for Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf who he said "is trying to do his best for the people of Pakistan."

"I hope that people realize that the desire of bin Laden is to create Taliban-type states all over the Arab and Muslims world," Blair said at a news conference with Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.

Blair's official spokesman told reporters that the letter "removes any doubts that he (bin Laden) is about anything other than destabilizing the region."

Jazeera did not show the brief letter in full although extracts could be read from the image displayed on television.

"The crusader war against Islam has intensified...The world is split into two. Part of it is under the head of infidels (U.S. President George) Bush, and the other half under the banner of Islam," it said.

"...Standing against wrong will strengthen us," it added.

------------------
Jesus is the joy of living
_________________________

Linda


Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42095
12/17/01 03:57 AM
12/17/01 03:57 AM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Another interesting article to go along with the one posted by Andrew at the top of this thread.
quote:
1,000 Turn Out In Oregon to Hear Mike Ruppert Expose Government Complicity in the WTC, Pentagon Attacks

FTW, December 5, 2001 – On November 28th an estimated 1,000 people came from as far away as Seattle and San Francisco to Portland State University to see FTW Publisher/Editor Mike Ruppert give a 2 ½ hour lecture and documentary presentation on the events surrounding the September 11th attacks and their aftermath. Starting with an offer of $1,000 to anyone who could show that any of the sources he cited were not authentic or misrepresented, Ruppert launched into an display of more than 40 visual exhibits showing government complicity in and foreknowledge of the attacks.

The event was organized by the campus newspaper The Rear Guard and its editor Dimitris Desyllas. “I never expected that we would have this kind of turnout,” Desyllas said. “But it is obvious that the public has very deep concerns about what we are being told and what the government is doing. We eventually brought in 860 chairs and there were people all around the walls and on the floor.” One of the volunteer videographers at the event was a Native American spiritual teacher of the Dakota Sioux nation, Skip Mahawk. Mahawk, then with the 101st Airborne Division, won the Congressional Medal of Honor at the legendary 1969 Vietnam War battle known as Hamburger Hill. Mahawk refused to accept the decoration.

Ruppert’s lecture was full of documentary evidence. After pointing out – among other things – that the Chief of Pakistani intelligence (approved for his position by the CIA) ordered a $100,000 wire transfer to lead hijacker Mohammed Atta; that the Bush family had business dealings with the bin Laden family through the Carlyle Group, that the U.S. and British governments had extensive military deployments already in the area before the attacks, and that the Bush administration had ordered the FBI to stop investigating two relatives of Osama bin Laden living near CIA headquarters this January, Ruppert launched into the centerpiece of the lecture which was a visual presentation of his timeline of events around September 11th - which left some members of the audience in tears.

Special attention was also paid to a newly resurrected Unocal pipeline to transport oil and natural gas from the Central Asian republics to the Pakistani coast for sale to China and Japan. Henry Kissinger is on both ends of that deal.

Audience reaction and anger was strongest as Ruppert presented selected quotes from “The Grand Chessboard,” a 1997 book by former Carter National Security Advisor and member of the Trilateral Commission, Zbigniew Brzezinski. Those quotes - along with maps of Central Asia - indicated clearly that the current war had been in the planning stages for at least four years. Two particular quotes from Brzezinski indicating the need for a Pearl Harbor-like attack evoked boos and hisses for the intelligence expert and professor who also served in the Reagan Administration.

Ruppert closed the lecture with an analysis of the assault on American civil liberties since September 11th in the form of the so-called PATRIOT Act and several unilateral decisions made by President Bush and Attorney General John Ashcroft which have effectively nullified three amendments to the Bill of Rights and taken away part of another. He also showed documentary evidence from Congress supporting his claim that the Bush administration was going to loot the Social Security Trust Fund.



A timeline of events is at “Oh Lucy! – You Gotta Lotta ‘Splainin To Do”

Re: Hidden Agenda in War Against Terror? #42096
12/17/01 04:02 AM
12/17/01 04:02 AM
L
Linda Sutton  Offline
Charter Member
2500+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,794
USA
Add to this interesting article from a British paper.
quote:
Bin Laden videotape was result of a sting

The CIA may have set up the terrorist leader to incriminate himself

In the cavernous front room, beneath flickering neon lights, they gathered to watch. Outside, darkness had fallen, but though the Ramadan fast was over the men who sat riveted to the screen of the single television in Jalalabad's Afghan Hotel were not in the mood for the customary celebration.

On the screen flickered a blurred picture: a tall, grey-bearded man in a white turban talking in Arabic to a number of other similarly attired associates. These fuzzy, broken images were the 'smoking gun' - bin Laden's long-awaited, albeit apparently unwitting, personal confession.

The men in the Afghan Hotel had a more pressing, more local interest too. According to the American authorities who solemnly released the tape last week, it had been found nearby, in a ruined building once used by Arab fighters from bin Laden's al-Qaeda organisation. It had been seized when Mujahideen fighters entered their city a few hours after al-Qaeda's Taliban protectors had left.

That, the viewers knew, was certainly possible. By the morning after the 'liberation' of Jalalabad, fighters loyal to Commander Hazrat Ali had seized safehouses and training complexes linked to al-Qaeda. Ali has cooperated with the Americans and the story that he had passed the tape on to the CIA was very plausible.

But then doubts began to surface. Why had bin Laden broken his tight security to talk? Why had he not used one of his normally favoured media outlets? Was the tape genuine? Was this indeed bin Laden at all?

The tape was certainly damning. It showed bin Laden laughing and boasting about the 11 September attacks as he talks to his interviewer, a Saudi cleric who has travelled through war-racked Afghanistan to see him. Bin Laden, flanked by two key aides, describes how the planes did far more damage to the World Trade Centre than he ever imagined. 'We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy... that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors,' he says. 'I was the most optimistic of them all.'

Bin Laden also indicates that the men who carried out the plot knew that they were on a 'martyrdom operation' but did not have details of the mission until the last minute.

This weekend, as the debate the tape has provoked continued across the Islamic world, several intelligence sources have suggested to The Observer that the tape, although absolutely genuine, is the result of a sophisticated sting operation run by the CIA through a second intelligence service, possibly Saudi or Pakistani.

'They needed someone whom they could persuade or coerce to get close to bin Laden and someone whom bin Laden would feel secure talking to. If it works, you have got the perfect evidence at the perfect moment,' said one security source. 'It's a masterstroke.'

The focus of suspicion is the Saudi dissident preacher who appears to have taped the interview, conducted according to the timecode on the video on 9 November, in what appears to be a guesthouse in the Afghan city of Kandahar. Though unidentified in the one-hour recording, security sources have told The Observer that the interviewer, who appears to be disabled from the waist down, is Ali Saeed al-Ghamdi, a former assistant professor of theology at a seminary in Mecca. Saudis who watched the tape said the interviewer's accent betrayed roots in the south-west of their country, either the lower Hejaz or Asir province, where most of the 15 Saudi hijackers were from. Bin Laden bows down to greet the cleric, who has not stood up to greet him. Only someone who was incapable of rising would not be on his feet in the presence of such a famous and revered man, Islamic experts said yesterday.

Al-Ghamdi, who is known to Saudi intelligence services, is a marginal figure who tried to make a name for himself through inflammatory anti-Western speeches before being banned from preaching in 1994, one Saudi close to the government said. In the late Nineties he preached in obscure mosques along the highway leading from the port city of Jedda - where bin Laden grew up - to the holy city of Mecca, but his firebrand oratory drew only small audiences.

Senior Saudi government figures and religious scholars tend to dismiss such men as insignificant. 'They are not big-time and they don't have the legitimacy and the religious scholarship that the big guys have,' said Nawaf Obeid, a Saudi security analyst. 'They make a name for themselves with how extreme they are. They aggrandise themselves by claiming they are with bin Laden.'

Security sources stress that, despite his Islamist credentials, al-Ghamdi would still be a potential point of contact for Pakistani, Saudi or Egyptian intelligence.

'He was known because he was suspected of being involved in the gathering of international finance for al-Qaeda. He is a peripheral figure who wants to be something bigger and is frustrated. It's a classic profile. They could have turned him,' one security official for a Gulf intelligence agency contacted in Peshawar said. Experts told The Observer that the tape bears a marked resemblance to secretly filmed evidence used by the FBI against major American Mafia figures in recent years.

And though US security officials said there was 'no confirmation' that the tape was made by an 'intelligence source', a Pentagon official confirmed to The Observer that 'curious circumstances' surrounded al-Ghamdi, who appeared to be aware of the taping.

Whatever its provenance, the video has polarised opinion in the Arab world. 'The vast proportion of people always believed he did it and condemned him for it. They have not altered their view,' said Abdul Wahab Badrakhan, the deputy editor of al-Hayat newspaper. 'Only those with a fanatical mindset would deny what they can now see.'

One such man is Syed, a 38-year-old man who fought alongside bin Laden in Afghanistan during the Eighties. 'There is no way Osama would have done something like this,' he said. 'He was a quiet man with great reverence for human life. The Osama I see happily describing people dying is not the Osama I knew and loved.'

Images of the 44-year-old Saudi-born dissident, who studied civil engineering as a young man, laughing as he talks of how he used his specialist knowledge to calculate how much damage the planes would do, have been difficult for supporters to explain.

General Hamid Gul, a hardline former head of Pakistan's ISI spy agency, suggested that the figure in the video might be a lookalike. Others have queried the translation of the poor-quality Arabic soundtrack and the way that certain key elements - such as the location where the film was made - are inaudible.



Things are starting to get interesting. Tonight, Tora Bora has fallen, the last cave entered, but Bin Laden is gone, and no one seems to know where.

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