Prominent Seventh-day Adventist evangelists for years have used the Lisbon Earthquake, the Dark Day and the Falling of the Stars in 1833 as "signs of the times."

I'd like some serious discussion on this matter.

Any history book will tell you that the Lisbon quake was significant, but hardly the worst tremblor to hit the planet in the last couple of hundred years.

The same marginalizing can be done with the Dark Day (it only affected New England) and the Falling of the Stars (a garden-variety meteor shower).

Do people still get excited about these traditionally used "signs?"

I think that to most people, those "signs" may be "old news" and they pale in comparison with more recent events like 2 20th Century World Wars and the 12+ million that have died of AIDS in the last decade or so in sub-Sahara Africa.

When I look at "Great Controversy," it seems that the 18th and 19th Century signs definately serve God's purpose.

Are they still relevant today?

Just a point: Almost 2 years ago I saw one of the Leonid Fireballs (which were responsible for the 1833 meteor shower) streaking rather slowly through the sky, parallel to the earth, for what seemed like half a minute. It definately got me to think of end-time issues.

What do you think?

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

One aspect that must be taken into consideration is the time prophecy. There would be signs that would occur at the time of the end, from just prior to 1798 to 1844. All these occurances came in that time window. While many things have occured since that time, they weren't the signs that pointed forward to the fulfillment of prophetic time.

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For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth.
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Linda

I'm kind of thinking along those lines, Linda. Around the time of Jesus there were at least 40 other "messiahs"--some of whom may have made a bigger "splash" at the time.

Jesus, however, came at the "right time" according to prophecy.

Those 3 events that I wrote about aren't as flashy as our current headlines, but they're added proofs to all the others that God's cosmic timing works.

How, though, do you make people care about them? They're not as attention-grabbing as they probably were in the 1800's.

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

[This message has been edited by Andrew Marttinen (edited March 05, 2001).]

Hi

I'm just going to post this from Bible Readings from the Home for they who may not know what the falling from the stars thing is all about...

What trying experience did Christ then foretell?
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Verse 21.

Note: Following the destruction of Jerusalem came the persecution of the Christians under pagan emperors during the first three centuries of the Christian Era. Later came the greater and more terrible persecution during the long centuries of papal supremacy, foretold in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:6. All these tribulations occurred ...under either pagan or papal Rome.

For whose sake would the period be shortened?
And except for those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.” Verse 22.

Note: Through the influence of The Reformation of the sixteenth century, and the movement which grew out of it, the power of the Papacy to enforce its decrees against those it pronounced heretics was gradually lessened, until persecution ceased almost wholly by the middle of the eighteenth century, before the 1260 years ended.

Against what deceptions did Christ then warn us?
“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christ’s, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” Verses 23, 24.

SIGNS IN SUN, MOON,
AND STARS

What signs of the end would be seen m the heavens?
“There shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars.”
Luke 21:25.

When were the first of these signs to appear?
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven.” Matthew 24:29.
“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.” Mark 13:24, 25. Compare Joel 2:30, 31; 3:15; Isaiah 13:10; Amos 8:9.
Note.—Within the 1260 years, but after the persecution (about the middle of the eighteenth century), the signs of His coming began to appear.
1. A wonderful darkening of the sun and moon. The remarkable Dark Day of May 19, 1780, is described by Samuel Williams of Harvard. The professor relates that the obscuration approached with the clouds from the southwest “between the hours of ten and eleven, A. M. and continued unto the middle of the next night,” varying in degree and duration in different localities. In some places “persons could not see to read common print in the open air, for several hours,” although “this was not generally the case.

"Candles were lighted up in the houses;—the birds having sung their evening songs, disappeared, and became silent;—the fowls retired to roost;—the cocks were crowing all around, as at break of day;—objects could not be distinguished but at a very little distance;—and everything bore the appearance and gloom of night."
(See Memoirs of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences (through 1783), vol. 1, pp.234, 235.)
"The darkness of the following evening was probably as gross as ever has been observed since the Almighty fiat gave birth to light. It wanted only palpability to render it as extraordinary, as that which overspread the land of Egypt in the days of Moses. ... If every luminous body in the universe had been shrouded in impenetrable shades, or struck out of existence, the darkness could not have been more complete. A sheet of white paper held within a few inches of the eyes were equally invisible with the blackest velvet. "—Samuel Tenney, Letter (1785) in Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society, part 1, vol. 1 (1792 ed.), pp. 97, 98.
Timothy Dwight, president of Yale, remembered that "a very general opinion prevailed, that the day of judgment was-at hand. The (Connecticut) House of Representatives, being unable to transact their business, adjourned," but the Council lighted candles, preferring, as a member said, to be found at work if the judgment were approaching. (See John W. Barber, Connecticut Historical Collections (2nd ed., 1836), p. 403.)
2. Remarkable display of falling stars.
"The morning of November 13th, 1833," says an eyewitness, a Yale astronomer, "was rendered memorable by an exhibition of the phenomenon called shooting stars, which was probably more extensive and magnificent than any similar one hitherto recorded. ... Probably no celestial phenomenon has ever occurred in this country, since its first settlement, which was viewed with so much adrniration and delight by one class of spectators, or with so much astonishmeit and fear by another class."—Denison Olmsted in The American Journal of Science and Arts, vol. 25(1834), pp. 363, 364.

"From the Gulf of Mexico to Halifax, until daylight with some difficulty ptt an end to the display, the sky was scored in every direction with shining tracks and illuminated with majestic fireballs. At Boston, the frequency of meteors was estimated to be about half that of flakes of snow in an average snowstorm. . . . Traced backwards, their paths were invariably found to converge to a point in the constellation Leo."—Agnes M. Clarke, A Popular History of Astronomy (1885 ed.), pp. 369. 370.
Frederick Douglass, in reminiscing about his early days in slavery, says: "I witnessed this gorgeous spectacle, and was awe-struck. The air seemed filled with bright descending messengers from the sky… I was not without the suggestion at the moment that it might be the harbinger of the coming of the Son of Man; and in my then state of mind I was prepared to hail Him as my friend and deliverer. I had read that 'the stars shall fall from heaven,' and they were now falling."—Life and Times of Frederick Douglass (1941 ed.), p.
117.

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It does seem to me that its all in the time frame that this happened, that makes it so important.

Claudia

I was also wondering if Sister White had anything to say about this?

In "The Great Controversy," chapter 17 titled "Heralds of the Morning," Mrs. White quite emphatically states that the Lisbon Earthquake, etc. are fulfilments of prophecy.

On page 304 she says that the 1755 earthquake was the "most terrible recorded."

Page 311 contains the purpose of these natural events:

"To prepare a people to stand in the day of God, a great work of reform was to be accomplished. God saw that many of His professed people were not building for eternity, and in His mercy He was about to send a message of warning to arouse them from their stupor and lead them to make ready for the coming of the Lord."

Is Seattle listening?

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

are we listening?
Scientists ssay that the probability of an earthquake striking anywhere in the US is a distinct possibility.
With the trends of late, those spots thought safe from them are even now experiencing them.

Detroit had a slight one not to long ago, it was very slight, but the earth moved.

Wakeup call world, the alarm is about to go off.

The St. Lawrence fault goes right through many of the Great Lakes. Even where everything is "seismically sound" with ancient rocks could pose problems.

While taking a mine tour in Sudbury, someone asked the guide if the miners weren't worried about earthquakes. The guide said that the rocks were so old and firm that there hasn't been a quake in 25 million years.

One week later Creighton Mine (where the Nutrino Observatory is housed) had a "seismic event" that measured 3.9 and another 6 hours later that measured 3.4. My house shook during those "events," waking up our zebra finches.

Scientists still refuse to call those events "quakes," but called them "rockfalls" because they were partly due to careless planning of tunnels in the mine (which is built, by the way on an ancient fault).

It seems to me that if snow coming down a mountainside is called an avalanche whether it was caused by the sun melting the snow or by a yodeller, an earthquake's an earthquake!

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

The whole Mississippi valley is due for massive quakes. In the last 200 years they had three that were over 8.0 Richter. Email me for the link if you would like to hear more.

p.s.~Seattle is awake...believe me!!!

Wendy
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Maranatha!!!

It seems to me that in relation to these events our chronology is suspect. In speaking of these signs, Jesus says that they will occur AFTER the "time of trouble such as never was." Check Matthew 24:29-30 and Mark 13:24-26.

If these are indeed the signs Jesus spoke of, then the "Time of Trouble" is past. If the "Time of Trouble" is not past, these cannot be the signs spoken of.