Durk, thanx for responding to my posts. I really liked what you had to say. You have a kind and gentle way of sharing your thoughts. I very much appreciate that.

When I asked if what I wrote counted for a biblical example of dual application I was actually referring to Ezekiel 38 & 39.

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Take, for example, the battle of Gog and Magog. Ezekiel 38 and 39. The Jews failed to fulfill this prophecy way back before the birth of Christ. And yet God reapplied it to the battle fought after the millennium. Revelation 20. Obviously many of the details do not carry over in future, but the underlying principles do fit nicely.

Does that count for a biblical precedence for dual application of prophecy?

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Does this come anywhere close to providing an example of dual application? That is, the idea that certain prophecies can accommodate more than one scenario?

Dear Remnant, please go easy on us. Those of us who post here also post elsewhere, so it's not as though all we do is "sit around" doing nothing. Please visit the other threads and take time to enjoy the heartfelt sharing that permeates MSDAOL. It is very balanced. And I personally praise God for it.

The Bible is full of prophecy. And that leads me to believe that God wants us to understand what He's trying to tell us. But studying prophecy doesn't mean we're not growing in grace. Not at all. I really learn alot about our heavenly Father and friends when I study and mediatate upon His prophetic utterances. So please resist judging us for studying prophecy. And remember, that's not all we study here.

Please understand that I say these things in love of Jesus. And I welcome anything constructive thing you have to share. But if you don't like studying prophecy or being around people who do like it, please feel free to skip this and other threads like it. There's plenty of other threads to study.

God bless.

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Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
Durk, thanx for responding to my posts. I really liked what you had to say. You have a kind and gentle way of sharing your thoughts. I very much appreciate that.

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I learned that one the hard way.

Mike, your right. I did cross two lines of thought in your post on Gog and Magog.

Give me a little time and I'll respond.

At this point in my research I have not found anything to indicate or support multiple fulfilments of prophecy. The prophecy of Gog and Magog was given twice to the same prophet, then refered to again by John. So in this specific case the prophecy was to be fulfilled in Israel (presumably) and again in the last days.

BUT, this in no way sets a precident for any or all prophecies to be interpreted as being fulfilled multiple times.

It would help me if the rational for multiple fulfilments was laid out, including Bible texts, so I could examine the arguments in favor of it.

Thanks

Perhaps at this point it would behove me to examine the larger context of prophecy and the rules governing its interpretation and understanding. I may have to start another thread, though, if it gets too far off the signs of the end theme.

I like what you are suggesting, Durk, and agree that it would be better to do it as a new thread or topic.

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In His Love, Mercy & Grace

Daryl

[This message has been edited by Daryl Fawcett (edited April 08, 2001).]

I'm back. Was away on business. Sorry for the delay. The Gog and Magog prophecy is just a small part of a larger picture concerning the destiny of Israel. It's what most theologians call the - Restoration Promises (or prophecies). The OT is full of prophecies outlining what God would do for post-Babylonian Israel if they met the inherent conditions.

They failed. So what becomes of those prophecies? They have been modified to be fulfilled by the Church. The principles apply, whereas much of the particulars do not - i.e., specific time, places and people. It is the flexible nature of prophecy, I believe, that makes this future application possible. God built it into the prophecies knowing how things would turn out in the end.

What could have been should have been. That is, things could have turned out the way God first gave it in the prophecy. He knew it wouldn't, but that doesn't change the fact that it should have.

Actually these examples do not specifically illustrate dual prophecy - where one prophecy is fulfilled twice, historically and futuristically. But it does clearly teach that prophecy is flexible enough to accommodate more than one situation - if God planned it that way.

The prophecy of Jonah is another example of how prophecy can involve more than one fulfillment. Although it was not fulfilled like first uttered (destruction in 40 days) it was eventually fulfilled some 200 years later.

What do you think?

I like to think of prophecy and "predicting" as not exactly the same. Prophecy has more to do with the way we live before God (like the prophet John the Baptist "giving it" to Herod).

Predicting has to do will God letting us know that He's in control of time and events by having us look back at the way He "ran things. It seems from the example of the 1260 days that no one seemed to have a clue about what they meant until the time was fulfilled.

Jesus told Peter once that before the cock crowed, he would deny Him 3 times. It was only after Peter did his deed that he understood the meaning of the prediction.

The Falling of Stars, etc. was predicted. We now are to live the Gospel in the light of eternal and end-time realities. Let us marshall our lives accordingly!

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

I'm a bit late here, but if you read this, you'll find some food for thought.

The timing of the signs is a key, as has already been mentioned. Roman armies had surrounded Jerusalem in the time of Pompey, but Jesus on Olivet was talking about 66 AD, a specific time. Likewise, the timing of the earthquake, dark day, and falling of the stars is what is important.

Also, if we look at the signs that occurred before Jerusalem fell, the ones Josephus records and that GC refers to, those signs meant something. They were relevant. A comet in the shape of a sword, armies preparing for battle in the sky, voices in the temple saying, "Let's get out of here." Very relevant.

Likewise, the fact that the Lisbon earthquake hit a strong Catholic center on All Saints Day and demolished all the churches was significant. The fact that Catholicism still reigned supreme at that time, and then lost her power shortly afterward is significant. The fact that the Protestant British were losing the French and Indian War before the earthquake and started winning it afterwards is significant. If the British hadn't won it, then America wouldn't be Protestant.

Likewise, the dark day occurring just over New England, that new land of light and liberty where the darkness of papal tyranny would one day be re-enacted, that event was relevant and significant. It meant something.

The concern expressed over why the tribulation cut short was the worst that ever was ifg it was the 1260 days is a good one. The answer to this can be seen when one parallels Mat. 24, Mk. 13, Lk. 21, and Dan. 11-12. In short, Dan. 11-12 pictures two tribulations. The first is upon the church and last many days until the time of the end. The second occurrs after Michael stands up and is upon the entire world. What happened to the church was worse in duration and intenstity than anything else that ever will be. What will happen to the world and the wicked during the 7 last plagues will be worse than anything that has ever been.

I see Lk. 21:25 talking about the second tribulation.

It is wrong to think that the papacy did not have an impact on the globe at large. She didn't hit India and America and China and Abyssinia till after the Reformation started.

The trumpets can never happen again. It isn't realistic, considering the specification of the 4th trumpet. Check out my paper Seven Trumpets of Revelation: Were the Later Reformers Right?"

Someone enquired about Rev. 8:2-5 and the close of probation. It is true that the close of probation is referred to in these verses, but that doesn't mean that the cloase of probation occurs before the trumpets blow, any more than the saints standing on the sea of glass in Rev. 15 means that we go to heaven before the plagues fall, or the fact that everyone praises God in the end of ch. 5 means that every knee bows before the first seal is opened.

The trumpets, seals, and plagues all have an introduction that tells us when these things begin and end. The plagues start when no one can enter the temple anymore, and end when we are all in heaven. The seals begin when Jesus becomes worthy to open the book because He was the lamb that had just been slain, and end when everyone praises God. The trumpets begin when the High priest offers incense daily on the altar, and ends when He puts fire from the altar in the censer to begin the Day of Atonement, after which probation closes.

[This message has been edited by Pickle (edited May 29, 2001).]