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Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44510
12/16/01 08:40 AM
12/16/01 08:40 AM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
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Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
There is a human tendency to build Bible studies & doctrines from assumptions.

Before Adam sinned, this would be a non problem. However after sin it becomes a big problem for more than one reason.

1. With Satan having easy ascess within human minds and natures, and God having to implant what is no longer natural to present human nature; humanity is caught in a struggle between two supernatural kings and kingdoms. Both rulers are always smarter than humans, and able to sway any and all humans within their influence.

2. Humans naturally seek the new the improved the exiting and the convienent. If a teaching fits any of those things, humans might not be required to surrender to the God of Heaven, through those teachings . The defining key is are these teachings in full agreement with what God has said through His servants the prophets. In Amos 3:7 & Deuteronomy 29:29 & John 17:17-19.

Human assumptions that are used to form Bible studies and doctrines can be good and commendable or not, according to whether or not those assumptions agree or disagree with the actual statements of the Bible & SOP.

Therefore assumptions must be compared with Scripture and the cross referenced weight of Scripture and SOP and the cross referenced weight of SOP.

If only one text of Scripture supported by context, if only one SOP quote supported by context; refutes the assumption then Isaiah 8:19-20 says that the particular assumption is in error.

I do not claim ability to know or list all possible rules regarding Bible study and human assumptions but perhaps this is a good begining.


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44511
12/17/01 06:27 PM
12/17/01 06:27 PM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
The statement of our church that Edward posted here as to how to study the Bible is very good. I disagree on only a couple of points which are:

1) That any Bible version is a good version. I've read part of the book New Age Bible Versions and find that what the author presented is quite credible. This book proves that all modern versions of the Bible have been corrupted and then goes on to prove this point by comparing modern versions with the KJV. That truth has been compromised significantly by all modern versions is easy to see when you compare verses side by side with the KJV. I realize that the KJV is not perfect, but it is the best and most accurate version out there. To see what I mean about modern versions corrupting the truth go to
www.avpublications.com and click on "New Versions Critiqued" and then click on "NIV, NASB Verse Comparison Tract" to see the stunning proof. Some modern versions have even dropped out whole verses!

2)That authors like Jeremiah and Isaiah contain prophecy that is non-apocalyptic. I've found in my studies that many of the books of the OT contain additional light on the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation and are thus also apocalyptic. It is obvious that Ellen White believed the same by her numerous quoting of Scripture in the OT when she is speaking of prophecy yet in the future. For instance, Isaiah contains a lot of prophecy about the end of this world and the new earth and Ellen White quotes these passages when she is speaking of these issues.

[ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Jean Miller ]


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44512
12/17/01 08:57 PM
12/17/01 08:57 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
I agree with Jean on both points.

Thank you, Jean, for that internet link. I was wondering if there were a link on this.

I heard and also read a little about the other versions of the Bible.

The KJV us the most reliable. I also believe that the NKJV is the next most reliable.

It is OK to use the others as long as they are compared to the KJV and/or the NKJV when studying the Bible.


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44513
12/20/01 05:57 PM
12/20/01 05:57 PM
J
Jean Miller  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 183
USA
Here's another link that gives information about the different Bible versions.

http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/index.html


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44514
12/21/01 05:59 PM
12/21/01 05:59 PM
Edward F Sutton  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,428
Zanesville, OH 43701
I think we all agree that KJV is the most acurate English speaking Bible available.

I think we all agree that it is best to gether all the direct & indirect texts & passages & statements on a topic or subject, keeping the Bible usage from both context & the overall plan of redemption.

I think we all agree that making assumptions and baseing Bible study upon those assumptions, is only useful when each assumption is tested by the Bible and agrees with Scripture's direct & indirect statements and explanations.


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44515
12/24/01 03:10 AM
12/24/01 03:10 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I appreciate the points that have been made throughout this thread. I would like to suggest a few thoughts for your consideration. And I would appreciate your comments.

1. Inspired Discrepancies. For example, compare the prophecy concerning Peter's three-fold denial of the Lord:

Matthew 26:34, 75 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice... And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Mark 14:30, 72 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, [even] in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice... And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

The two narratives contradict one another. Over the years people have attempted to harmonize these accounts using all manner of logic and reason, but the fact still remains - they contradict one another. And there are other places in the Bible where different accounts disagree.

Some have wrestled with this problem and have concluded that it doesn't really matter since the main points agree, and just because unimportant details don't agree doesn't change the overall truth. And I concur with this logic. The details that differ do not contradict salvation truth. But it doesn't change the fact that the Bible contains discrepancies.

How should we relate to these discrepancies? Well, here's my take on it. I like to call them inspired discrepancies, because I believe God must have allowed them to exist (for certainly He could have prevented them) to test our faith and committment. I like how Ellen White put it:

GC 527.2 "While God has given ample evidence for faith, He will never remove all excuse for unbelief. All who look for hooks to hang their doubts upon will find them. And those who refuse to accept and obey God's word until every objection has been removed, and there is no longer an opportunity for doubt, will never come to the light."

2. Miller's Mistake. Another type of inspired discrepancy is recorded in Rev 10. We applaud Miller's study methods, and rightly so, but have we forgotten that he made one of the biggest mistakes in the history of religion? In fact, even a casual reading of his sermons reveals that he was dead wrong on many important aspects of the Revelation. Not to mention that he resisted salvation truths discovered after the Great Disappointment.

How should we relate to this information? Again, I believe God allowed Miller to make mistakes and errors to test the flock and to prepare them to fulfill the remnant roll in the last days. Here's what Ellen White wrote about it:

GC 353, 354 "Yet God accomplished His own beneficent purpose in permitting the warning of the judgment to be given just as it was. The great day was at hand, and in His providence the people were brought to the test of a definite time, in order to reveal to them what was in their hearts. The message was designed for the testing and purification of the church. They were to be led to see whether their affections were set upon this world or upon Christ and heaven. They professed to love the Saviour; now they were to prove their love. Were they ready to renounce their worldly hopes and ambitions, and welcome with joy the advent of their Lord? The message was designed to enable them to discern their true spiritual state; it was sent in mercy to arouse them to seek the Lord with repentance and humiliation.

"The disappointment also, though the result of their own misapprehension of the message which they gave, was to be overruled for good. It would test the hearts of those who had professed to receive the warning. In the face of their disappointment would they rashly give up their experience and cast away their confidence in God's word? or would they, in prayer and humility, seek to discern where they had failed to comprehend the significance of the prophecy? How many had moved from fear, or from impulse and excitement? How many were halfhearted and unbelieving? Multitudes professed to love the appearing of the Lord. When called to endure the scoffs and reproach of the world, and the test of delay and disappointment, would they renounce the faith? Because they did not immediately understand the dealings of God with them, would they cast aside truths sustained by the clearest testimony of His word?

"This test would reveal the strength of those who with real faith had obeyed what they believed to be the teaching of the word and the Spirit of God. It would teach them, as only such an experience could, the danger of accepting the theories and interpretations of men, instead of making the Bible its own interpreter. To the children of faith the perplexity and sorrow resulting from their error would work the needed correction. They would be led to a closer study of the prophetic word. They would be taught to examine more carefully the foundation of their faith, and to reject everything, however widely accepted by the Christian world, that was not founded upon the Scriptures of truth."

3. The Hebrew Mind. It has been suggested that many parts of the Bible reflect the way the Hebrew mind works. Which is true. But I believe we must be careful how we apply this to the prophetic parts of the Bible. John, for example, wrote down what he saw in vision. To suggest that he arranged the revelation according to his hebrew way of thinking is to suggest that the Revelation does not accurately reflect the chronology he actually saw in vision.

To implicate John in this manner is to question his integrity as a person and as a prophet. I believe John wrote down exactly what he saw and in the exact order God revealed it to him. I do not believe John edited what he was shown to suit his hebrew way of thinking. Nor do I believe John attempted to interpret the Revelation according to his perspective. What he wrote is exactly what he saw. And he who warned others not to add or subtract from the Revelation is certainly not guilty of it himself. Rev 22:18,19.

For example, some have suggested that John was shown helicopters at the end of time, but since he had no concept of helicopters John chose to describe it, according to his hebrew point of view, as a locust-scorpion like creature. Rev 9:7-10. To imply this idea is to discount the prophecy. Like Daniel, the composite creatures John was shown in vision symbolize truth. But to say John was just trying to describe a helicopter misses the whole point.

4. Inductive vs. Deductive Study. It is a common practice to read the Bible to find further evidence to support what we already believe to be true. Thus, we often use inductive thinking to interpret other passages of the Bible. This is not too far from relying on preconceived ideas. Which is not a bad study principle as long as our preconcieved ideas are biblically sound. Truth is built upon the foundation of truth. It does not exist in a vacuum.

However, inductive study methods can also prevent us from discovering new light. We must guard against this pitfall as we seek to uncover the hidden treasures contained in the Word of God. What might at first glance appear to contradict or undermine old light may in reality open doors that have hitherto been closed.

I believe dual application principles of prophecy fall into this category. The idea that one prophecy accomodates two separate yet similiar eras does not derail one or the other. The historical application is not in the least compromised just because the same prophecy also describes future developments (and vice versa).

[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44516
12/27/01 06:40 PM
12/27/01 06:40 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Mike

I think that "paradox" is a much more accurate word for what you describe above.

There is a big difference with that and "contradiction," or "discrepancy."


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44517
12/28/01 12:37 AM
12/28/01 12:37 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Paradox? Perhaps a dichotomy? Or a bifurcation? But do euphemisms really lessen the reality? And is the truth something we need to hide from? Since God permitted the paradox passages obviously they're for a good reason.

Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44518
12/31/01 06:27 PM
12/31/01 06:27 PM
D
Durk  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 109
North America
Just for the record, I have to strongly disagree with Edward's assertion that "KJV is the most acurate English speaking Bible available." The KJV is as flawed as any other, contains out of date usages, as well as entire words which nobody knows the meanings of. It was translated from manuscripts which were flawed, in a time period when our understanding of the original languages was considerably less than it was when the RSV, NIV, ASB, or others was translated. A statement like that just shows a basic unfamiliarity with the facts.

(Perhaps there is already a thread going on this topic. If so, I'll try to find it. If there isn't, and somebody wants to start one, I'd be happy to contribute my two cents worth.)

Sorry, Eddie, I just couldn't let that one pass without biting!


Re: Rules Of Interpreting Bible Truth(s) #44519
12/31/01 07:36 PM
12/31/01 07:36 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,133
Nova Scotia, Canada
There are actually two different topics on the NIV versus the KJV, etc.

One is in the Christian Concerns forum and the other is in the SDA Church Issues forum, however, as your post fits the name of this topic, let us focus here on what you said about the KJV as we need to understand all the versions/translations of the Bible to arrive at a correct understanding of what is being said in our different Bible versions.

After saying that, I agree that none of them are perfect in the same way that none of our churches are perfect, however, in my estimation, the KJV is still better than the others.

What do you think?


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