If a person wore Scouting or pathfinder Badges of honor and merit and symbols of achivement and actually was a Scout or pathfinder of those achivements, would they not be legitimate representations of honour ? sure they would.

They could be worn with not only their true symbolism but also the memories they represent.

The pathfinders would have an advantage over the Scouts because it is assumed all Pathfinders would because of the nature of their training, know Jesus as their Saviour personally and have many memories of His helping them overcome themselves & many obstacles as they earned those honours.

In the Bible this was demonstrated by the Egyptian Pharoah who honored Joseph who sayed Egypt from faming, as he made Joseph prime minister of Egypt.

Genesis 41:
40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
41 And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.
42 And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph’s hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;

God loves Gems and precious metals and Jewels and is Himself the best Jewler in the universe. He has even built His home & throne & throne-room out of the stuff. He carpeted Eden with the stuff scattered all around on top of the ground. But that was before sin.

What does jewelry on sin-less people symbolize ?

(God talking to Satan - symbolized by the King of Tyre. Once in Heaven before Satan sinned He was Lucifer the light bearer, sinless and worthy of his coverings.)
Ezekiel 28:
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

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Enoch in Heaven & traveling to visit other worlds.

" Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated.
99
On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place." He moved about the place as if perfectly at home. I begged of my attending angel to let me remain in that place. I could not bear the thought of coming back to this dark world again. Then the angel said, "You must go back, and if you are faithful, you, with the 144,000, shall have the privilege of visiting all the worlds and viewing the handiwork of God." {CET 98.2}
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The Lord has given me a view of other worlds. Wings were given me, and an angel attended me from the city to a place that was bright and glorious. . . . Then I was taken to a world which had seven moons. There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. On the back part of his head was a bow that confined the wreath, and upon the bow was written "Holiness." Above the wreath was a lovely crown that shone brighter than the sun. I asked him if this was the place he was taken to from the earth. He said, "It is not; the city is my home, and I have come to visit this place."--EW 39, 40. {TA 68.2}

Enoch represents those who shall remain upon the earth and be translated to heaven without seeing death. He represents that company that are to live amid the perils of the last days, and withstand all the corruption, vileness, sin, and iniquity, and yet be unsullied by it all. We can stand as did Enoch. There has been provision made for us. . . . Angels of God that excel in strength, are sent to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation. These angels, when they see that we are doing the very utmost on our part to be overcomers, will do their part, and their light will shine around about us, and sway back the influence of the evil angels that are around us, and will make a fortification around us as a wall of fire.--RH April 19, 1870. {TA 68.3}
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1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. (Gold tried in the fire & Pearl of Great Price)

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? **( See the clothing of children of the King of Kings.)

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Glowing face shining with eternal vitality.)

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. (**)

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. (The diamond engraved with the name that reflects your life experiences set in your crown of glory.)

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: (**)

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. (The Book of Blue & Gold the Ledger that is the Book of Eternal Life. In keeping with God's ways something of the emblems of your redeemed royal station will reflect that.)

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (**)

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. ( The bright white throne set upon the crystal pavement of sapphire.)

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. (**)

2nd Corinthians 6:

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

(Jesus's promise about adornment on Earth & in Heaven .)(**)

Matthew 6:
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Luke 12:
27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.
30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.
31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Rainbows of color for the redeemed to wear.

Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Psalms 104:
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.

2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

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God gives adorments to the victorious redeemed. But what does He say about people who are still sinners in Bible times about their jewelry & painting themselves & fragrances - designed to attract others to themselves ? For starters :

24 verses "jewel*"
21 verses "ornanent*"
50 verses "ring*"

Do you have OnLine Bible ? Great Bible software. It's a free download. I will hunted the URL up & post the link, unless it's already in MSDAOL.

[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

Excellent study Linda..thank you so much for taking the time to put in online.

Chantale I do not feel as if I should comment as I feel that Linda's post has said it all that I feel. And to me I have never seen the since in it. If women are so flawed that we need to wear makeup how come the flawed men do not wear makeup. It is just all so silly. Men are living in this world of sin...how come it is only us women that are flawed and need to COVER UP.....maybe we women are the only ones flawed because it was the woman who ate the apple and tempted Adam to eat of it. Just my .02 worth...I will be praying that you will find the answer from God and God only.

What does Mat.6 have to do with not wearing a bit of modestly applied makeup Ed?

Let's look at one example of SOP on this subject to make a point:

3T.366.002
Christian youth, I have seen in some of you a love for dress and display which has pained me. In some who have been well instructed, who have had religious privileges from their babyhood, and who have put on Christ by baptism, thus professing to be dead to the world, I have seen a vanity in dress and a levity in conduct that have grieved the dear Saviour and have been a reproach to the cause of God. I have marked with pain your religious declension and your disposition to trim and ornament your apparel. Some have been so unfortunate as to come into possession of gold chains or pins, or both, and have shown bad taste in exhibiting them, making them conspicuous to attract attention."

Are you saying that someone like Chantale, meets the "qualifications" I have highlighted in bold, from the above quote?

The bolded part above is the only thing the Bible or SOP names a concern about.

What is the difference between someone wearing their best dress, and taking special care to do up their hair nice; or applying a little make up? Ellen White tells us we should look our best in church, and in other situations.

I have seen some ladies here in our church who wear very modest applications of makeup, and they do not "make themselves conspicuous, to attract attention," which is what the concern should be; and seems to be in the SOP.

Mike

Not all who wear modestly applied makeup are guilty of "imitating Babylon."

Your study does centre more on jewelry; and not totally the same as the makeup thing.

Some gals look just fine with a little makeup, and it's no different than putting on a really nice dress or suit in order to look your best.

Otherwise, we could say that rope (tie) that men are forced to wear around their neck every week at church, or the rug on their backs (suit jackets) is "imitating Babylon." Also, if it's wrong for ladies to sensibly apply a bit of makeup to enhance their skin appearance; then it must be wrong for men to wear a corsage at weddings, a folded hanky in their suitjacket pocket, or a tie clip on their shirts...

Ever have your tie fall into a bowl of soup?

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]

Chantale

Here is the Online Bible URL

http://www.onlinebible.net/

If you are familiar with downloading you probably won't have a problem. If needed Linda can "talk you through" since she is the one who downloaded this on our PC originally & keeps it updated on our PC .

What SOP references do you have ?

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

Chantale:
Well we certainly got a bees nest stirred up with your question didn't we! I am not sure what you are looking for in regards to a straight answer? Can you ask more direct questions? Should you wear lipstick? I would answer what is going on that you feel a need to wear it? Should you wear foundation? If you have skin marks that you feel uncomfortable with I would suggest a light base would be in the range of modesty and appropriateness. Do you need eyeliner? I would think not. Do you need rouge? If you are sickly then diet adjustment and exercise will probably give you a better rouge job than other things.

Makeup is a difficult thing because it is subtle and more a matter of the heart. So if we can give you more opinionw we have got lots of them. I recommend you study these things out and pray over them and then reveiw them with a good solid Christian support network.

I'm sorry i couldn't answer before!!
But, i'm here now!!
I read all the replies and i have a question:
Why do you all attach make up to clothing!!
I know it relates and goes together but it's 2 different things!!!!!!!
Okay now, different opinions... different suggestions...
Here's mine:
I wear: foundation, eye shadow, mascara and that's about it. I'm not going over board and i don't look like i have 1/2 inch of makeup.
And lets put it that way: i wouldn't walk a mile to get marscara if i needed some..lol.
I mean, I wear make up to look a bit better, to make myself look healthy and that's it!!
Is that ok??
Is that alright?
I think so..
But if any of you think not so pls reply and tell me what you think. Don't be afraid i'm looking for straight answers and nothing else.
and what about perms and nail polish?!!?
can it be ok?
Or is it just plainly no?
And again i say:
HELP!!!

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Chantale Bérubé ]

Chantale:
I am not sure why I am getting into the middle of this, I always find it interenting why me and why on this subject?

To answer some of your questions. Why attach makeup and clothing. It seems to go hand in hand. It also seems to attract jewelry as well.

Why do you want to look "better"? Whom are you looking better to and why?

You sound like you are settled on the subject of makeup and that you have come up with a standard that you feel good about but yet you are on a conservative SDA chat board asking questions about a very sensitive subject. Sounds to me like the Holy Spirit is still working on this subject with you.

In reference to perms. I don't like the thought of all those chemicals, very stinky ones at that, getting on your head and being absorbed through your scalp. I wonder if anyone has done any studies on the absorbability of those chemicals?

Hope that this has been of some help.
Greg

Greg, if you check the URL I posted above, you will find that I did look into the absorbtion of chemicals into the skin.

Chantale, when people look at Christians, they see their actions (or deportment), hear their speech, and look at how they are dressed and made up. These are the things by which they judge our Christianity. That is why makeup and dress and jewelry go together. They are all part of the appearance that others see.

Dear Chantale,

Who are you trying to "look a bit better" for? Yourself or your friends? Are you going through the trials of peer pressure? That has to be one of the hardest tests in the young adult years. By test I mean, do you succumb to all the glitz and lies of the media that have trapped your friends or do you stand alone, out of the pack and follow the voice of God. This is also a trap set by satan. He gets you to put your focus on material things. He gets you to spend your money frivolously. He gets you to put time into those thoughts rather than where it belongs. You know this will sound cliche, but if God had thought you needed a painted face or extra holes in your body to hang things in or designs under the skin, He would have made you that way. These are all things that take your focus away from God and satan just loves that. One way to look at the topic of makeup, jewelery, clothing is what do you "need" and what do you "want". God gives us everything He knows we need but not everthing we want; because what we want is often bad for us. Is it really going to hurt you to not have the currant 30 second clothing fad? Your friends may think so but God doesnt and He is the one you should really concern yourself about pleasing. Do not strive to even please yourself. Sounds harsh doesnt it? But if you can deny yourself and please only God, you will have one of the best most loving relationships with the Father. And thats the test you want to ace in life.

Amelia