I hear some SDA say some comments, sometimes rude sometimes.. not that rude but anyways, why do most SDA believe it's wrong to put make up?
I'm not saying i'm putting like 2" of make up but just a bit..
Is it really wrong?
Does God really think it's bad or is it just a church doctrine?
HELP!!!!

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Chantale Bérubé ]

Chantale;
The issue of makeup is a sensitive one. We don't have much Bible on the specific subject. You might want to look in the Spirit of Prophecy at the Ellen G. White Estates because they have a search engine for her writings.

But the primary Bible perspective is that God's women have no record of makeup. We have one text in II Kings 9:30. When Jehu is coming to destroy Jezebel she painted her face and tired her hair. So the concept is that whatever Jezebel did is probably not the most spiritual thing to do. Any "extreme" use of makeup, and any makeup that tends to be "eyecatching" is something you would want to be praying over.

Another aspect of makeup is jewelry. To me, as a male, is the perception that makeup, jewelry, and clothing all go together. Since nobody but God can read the heart, we are then left with drawing perceptions from what people wear and what they do. Wearing jewelry is a general form of idolatry in the Bible. Not in all cases but in general. See Genesis 35:1-4; Exodus 32:1-3; 33:4-6; Isaiah 3:16-24. Those passages that look at "jewelry" positively seem to do so in the context of sanctuary language. See Exodus 35:1-22; Ezekiel 16:1-14; Revelation 17:4. Obviously each person has to make the decisions of their heart connection to Jesus. If you want to know then you will have to study these things out. Bible first, SOP, and then the writings of men. Any thing that would break the relationship with Jesus is dangerous stuff.

Chantale ask Linda to e-mail you info. She researched for two years & did a comprehensive book that also covers that. Men trying to council women about this stuff usually does not work too well. Men have a male mindset & women don't. Women understand women better & can give more apples to apples council.

Brother Ed,
You are obviously a smart man with your observation about different perspectives with men and women. But, I liked Greg's post, too, especially what he said about the Sanctuary language.

Chantale, it seems to me that somewhere I read something that Greg said about our bodies being the temple of the Holy Spirit,or The Sanctuary, so to speak. If we notice the first sanctuary, the tent, the inside was wonderfully beautiful with gold, silver, intricately woven fabrics, precious stones, etc. But the outside covering was "badger's skins," seemingly a practical, simple covering, probably chosen for their protective qualities.

Maybe this doesn't apply here, but, my daughter has an observation about me, I'd like to share.
she likes to say, "If Mom says that a person is beautiful or handsome, don't take it to necessarily mean that they are physically attractive. Because," she says, "If Mom really likes someone, she thinks they are beautiful."

I think it is the beauty on the inside that really makes a person beautiful. Our pastor's wife doesn't wear a bit of makeup, not even foundation, but, there is not a woman in church who doesn't think she is beautiful. She glows from an inner beauty that no makeup could compete with. Her beauty is that inner peace, and love and committment to Jesus.

Dora

Dora,
I do know that make up won't make you a better person, i just want to know why?!
It's like there's nobody to give me a straight answer!

Hi, Chantale!

I'm going to wade in with a few things that I hope are helpful and not misleading. In many areas of life, there is clear right and wrong, with definite statements in the bible. But in many others, there is nothing. Some topics have a story or brief mention which vaguely imply a certain thing is right or wrong - as in Greg's post about Jezebel.

Is it wrong to wear clothing? No, of course not. Does it therefore follow that it is right to dress in revealing, "sexy" clothing? Of course not. The basic bible instruction is to cover our nakedness (the story of Noah is clear about this), and we are to present ourselves as representatives of God.

Here is what Isaiah 3 says:

16
The LORD says, "The women of Zion are haughty, walking along with outstretched necks, flirting with their eyes, tripping along with mincing steps, with ornaments jingling on their ankles.
17
Therefore the Lord will bring sores on the heads of the women of Zion; the LORD will make their scalps bald."
18
In that day the Lord will snatch away their finery: the bangles and headbands and crescent necklaces,
19
the earrings and bracelets and veils,
20
the headdresses and ankle chains and sashes, the perfume bottles and charms,
21
the signet rings and nose rings,
22
the fine robes and the capes and cloaks, the purses
23
and mirrors, and the linen garments and tiaras and shawls.
24
Instead of fragrance there will be a stench; instead of a sash, a rope; instead of well-dressed hair, baldness; instead of fine clothing, sackcloth; instead of beauty, branding.

If you read the chapter you will find the context is that people were defying God, and the haute couture of the day is cited as evidence of ungodliness. (Can you recognise a very modern situation in the description of women who are preoccupied with fashion and self-beautification rather than God?)

Jesus wants to make you happy. He wants you to make others happy. And He wants to reach out to others by having them see Him reflected in your life. As we walk with Him, we are gradually changed into His image. If I try to paint a picture over another painting, I must cover all of the old painting or the new one will be spoiled. The eye will be distracted by images that don't belong.

Wearing makeup is not wrong. In some jobs it is important that we look "normal" as a first impression (counselling, sales, etc). I once visited a professional person who had only one eye. He wasn't wearing an eye patch, and the open socket was not a pretty sight. I couldn't stop staring at it with a horrified fascination (I laugh about it now!) and this really spoiled the visit.

God wants us to look pretty. Some of us were born with a real disadvantage in that area! (LOL) And for women it is currently the social norm that a little carefully-applied makeup, and well-groomed hair indicate self-care and self respect, rather than wantonness.

The devil wants us to be looking in any direction except God's. Our appearance, our hobbies, our conversation can cause us or others to forget God. We can spend money which would feed someone for a week on only one item, like mascara. If someone was in your living room, dying of starvation, you wouldn't dream of saying "no, I need this money for makeup". Just because they live elsewhere, that doesn't change our responsibility. So the issue of stewardship also applies to this subject.

This post is getting to be long, but there are a couple more things I want to say. One is that what Dora says about beauty is true. I learned this many years ago when I was a teenager, and I was helped by a Seventh-day Adventist social worker. She assisted me and my husband through a tough time. I met her months later, and was astonished to see that she was a plain looking woman. In my memory, she was quite beautiful looking. At the time, it never occurred to me to analyse her looks, as I simply thought she was pretty. I realised I had been responding to her inner beauty, and I've never forgotten.

When I started attending church, after a long time away, I was still young, and I wore lots of mascara. I had pretty eyes, but only when the lashes were blackened. I made no ethical decision to stop wearing makeup. But at some point, I noticed that I wasn't bothering to do so, and I knew that to continue to wear it was to draw attention to me. Jesus had simply come in and pushed out the need.

You decide what you believe, and what the bible and the Holy spirit are telling you. It may be that vanity and attention-seeking are not problems for you. But you may inadvertently influence other girls who do have those problems, and by your example encourage them to ignore the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Most importantly, have a daily devotional life. If you don't see a problem with makeup today, splash it on. And when nasty OR well-meaning people comment, thank them for their comments, and go away and think about what they said. God often uses other people to tell us things. If you begin to see a problem, don't fight the Spirit. And pray for wisdom every day. God is good, and always answers "yes" to that one.

My kindest wishes go with you as you continue to search.

The Word of God alone is to be our guide in all we do in life, not our feelings, not customs, not traditions. Through the Bible and SOP we can learn what God wants and requires of His children.

As Ed said, the topic of Christian dress, and all it includes, was the subject of my intense study for about two years. I have been posting in increments my findings here on the forum for several months. You can read the posts in the the Forum Library. The topics all include "Christian Dress" in the topic title. You can read about makeup in Christian Dress --Part E: Hair and Makeup

Chantale, I did a study on the subject of personal adornment a few years ago. It's mostly about jewelry, but the principles apply to make-up as well. Except of course in the New Earth we won't need make-up to cover unsightly blemishes.

---------------------------------------------

The Bible and Jewelry

Introduction
God loves beautiful gems and jewels. He created them. And before his fall Lucifer was adorned with all kinds of precious stones. “Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty… every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold” Ezekiel 28:12,13.

God also instructed Moses to adorn Aaron, the High Priest, with all manner of ornate dress and jewelry “for glory and for beauty with gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen” Exodus 28:2,5. In fact, God used the same precious stones to adorn Aaron that He once used to adorn Lucifer: sardius, topaz, carbuncle, emerald, sapphire, diamond, ligure, agate, amethyst, beryl, onyx, and jasper. See Exodus 28:17-20.

Jerusalem and Jewelry
When God married Jerusalem He adorned her gorgeously with gems and jewelry. “Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a cove-nant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I thoroughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

“I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceed-ing beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD” Ezekiel 16:8-14.

But when Jerusalem committed adultery God divorced her and removed her adorning jewels and fine apparel. “In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon, the chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers, the bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings, the rings, and nose jewels, the changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins, the glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils. And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty” Isaiah 3:18-24.

Judgment and Jewelry
When Jesus became a human to save the world He removed all of His precious stones and elegant coverings. “He hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him” Isaiah 53:2. Jesus is now betrothed to the Church. Presently He is in heaven preparing a place for His Bride. But eventually He will return for the wedding ceremony and feast. And at that time Jesus will adorn her with precious stones and exquisite apparel. In the meantime, however, it is the day of atonement. And the character of the Bride is under investigation.

During judgment all jewelry and fine apparel is removed. See Leviticus 23:26-32. Why? Because judgment has to do with character rather than adornment. “Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price” 1 Peter 3:3,4.

Babylon, the mother of harlots, refuses to comply with the conditions of judgment. “And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornica-tion” Revelation 17:4. Compare with Revelation 12:1.

Jubilee and Jewelry
Jubilee begins when Jesus marries the Bride. He will then adorn her with precious jewels and costly array. “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God” Revelation 19:7-9.

“Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal… And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones.

“The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass” Revelation 21:9-11 and 18-21.

Conclusion
God does not categorically condemn wearing jewelry. He loves gems, jewels and fine apparel. And when worn with God’s permission they symbolize the righteousness of Christ. But when we take it upon ourselves to wear them without God’s permission we effectively deny righteousness by faith. “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God” Romans 10:3.

Jesus is in heaven getting things ready for the marriage ceremony and feast. Once we are married Jesus Himself will adorn us with jewels and garments of His own choosing. In the meantime, however, we are living in the day of atonement. Jesus is judging character. Thus, we must “humble [ourselves] in the sight of the Lord” James 4:10. Are you willing to wait for Jesus to adorn you? Or will you imitate Babylon and adorn yourself? The choice is yours.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mike Lowe ]

Gen 1:27
"So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

After sin, man tried to cover his nakedness.....so now we wear clothes. We try covering our face with man's creations, our fingers and ears with gold that glorifies man. we were not created with holes in the lobes of our ears...Natural..is what God created and he wants our beauty to be the "inner Beauty" that comes from knowing Him and having Him in our hearts. That shows to those all around you and is uplifting and a good example of God's creative power.

Hello Chantale

I want to enclose a short quote, as a sample of what I have seen people use to say ladies should not wear one speck of make up; and then I will comment:

"The prophecy of Isaiah 3 was presented before me as applying to these last days, and the reproofs are given to the daughters of Zion who have thought only of appearance and display.

Read verse 25: "Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty men in the war." I was shown that this scripture will be strictly fulfilled.

Young men and women professing to be Christians, yet having no Christian experience, and having borne no burdens and felt no individual responsibility, are to be proved. They will be brought low in the dust and will long for an experience in the things of God, which they have failed to obtain.

War lifts his helmet to his brow;

O God, protect Thy people now. (1T 270:1).

This kind of thing does very little to "prove" that women should not wear make up. These kinds of quotes emphasize the tendency to be always preoccupied with outward appearance, in an inordinate way. Very few quotes like this could be applied to the modest wearing of make up and as the quote says: "reproofs are given to the daughters of Zion who have thought only of appearance and display., not of people such as yourself who just try to make themselves look their best.

Your opinion of what it means to look your best won't be the same as everyone; but that does not make it wrong.

There are actually some good medical reasons why people would want to wear make up; so it can't be wrong in all cases. I am speaking of burn victims, cancer patients, etc.

Some go so far as to say you shouldn't even use moisturizer creme. I use it myself; and I am a man, but don't tell anyone my secret. In fact; I had a lady at one church make fun of me in front of others about this. I guess she talked to someone that saw me use it at camp meeting or something.

I have some burn areas, on my neck & face that I need to do this for.

One thing is for sure...there are some ladies who overdo the makeup, just like they do the short skirt...

Oh yes, and the lady that made fun of me did not wear makeup; but then, there is a nice lady who married me, and she doesn't wear make up either.

[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: DavidTBattler ]