Coming back from some form of outreach class, where we went out into the neighbourhoods and helped, witnessed, ministered, taught what we had learned with all the ideals within us shining out of our young exuberent hearts.

We had come back to the house, students lived in the houses there with married couples as "homeheads" superintending. David & Coleen Lee were our homeheads then. David's father James Lee was visiting from the mission field or the GC I don't remember.

But he said something very fundamental as a bunch of us were gethered in the living room. He said "Ed I can always tell when you've been witnessing & helping others. Your face is shining."

He went on to say that the same thing happens with the girls. The face is radiating the spiritual light of Heaven. Unless the person is wearing makeup for the usual reasons. Their face could not shine for not only the physical makeup was in the way but the reasons for the makeup was in the way.

If a person was wearing makeup to hide burns & scars & disfigurements the face could still shine with Heaven's light from a pure heart, but not as brightly because makeup physically blocked it somewhat. A light that was just barely within visible eyesight, but disernable.

Someone else brought up this point.
Under ultraviolet a non made up face looked ok, but one with makeup reflected the very different frequencies of makeup and not human flesh built to receive the glory of God as it's covering. It did not look good at all under UV light.

Just a thought:

God & the holy angels see us in all frequencies and wavelengths as well as our thoughts, and feelings. Under that kind of view what does makeup and it's usual reasons for being worn look like to them ?

Have you ever seen someone so over dressed it was very obvious and out of place. The desire for pre-eminence through appearance. Or attraction of others to self, was in appearance. Old fashioned human pride, or the desire to romantically attract could well be in operation.

As you read Desire of Ages, one of the things the Hebrews wanted was the Roman's wealth and symbols and trappings of wealth & power. clothing was a part of that facade they were seeking.

Case in point:

All I have to say is "The lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and memories of Robin Leach and exotic trappings of wealth and artifical beauty spring to mind.

Same human nature even after 2000 yrs.

The female mindset seems to base self value upon physical appearance & desirability. The various cultures of Earth seem to have this one trait in common. God implanted in women's nature the desire toward her husband, or to get a husband. That is a process that is reactivated at actual puberty and is to be channeled by what God has revealed.

The same goes for men.

Women manifest in one way & men in another.

Once you become part of the kingdom of Heaven in the here and now, the world's standards if they are in opposition to God's standards, can nolonger be your expression of loyalty to God.

What you learn becomes the arena of combat within you, if it somthing you want to hold on to despite what you have learned. The not wanting to surrender to God about whatever it is, is the actual problem, the thing like jewelry or makeup is just the symptom.

It's the same process of conversion as when you first came to Jesus, the first became an SDA, now the process is going deeper. This is the proof Jesus loves you for He is searching your heart, revealing yourself to you, through circumstances and helping you to turn to Him in these situations. He is doing that with this goal in mind.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

1st Peter 4:
12 ¶ Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

Ephesians 5:

(last part of verse 25)even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Thank you in advance for being my sounding board in this. I do not assume you are useing makeup. This way hopefully I will not seem confrontational about this topic or my approach in answering this question, which may shed light upon the principles involved in the makeup topic.

[ January 12, 2002: Message edited by: Edward F Sutton ]

I don't take you to be "confrontational" at all in this...

It's just that I read your post, and there seemed to be no connection.

From what I see; you have made an abstract application of a very important principle from Mathew 6.

You are right. I do not wear make up.

But I do use moisturizer creme.

I have to because of burns I got in the past.

But joking aside; it seems as though we can very easily place unfair, and innacurate labels on people who don't dress well, or who wear makeup.

They don't all have some of the motives suggested in this thread.

Some people do know how to wear makeup tastefully, and they don't look "seductive" or "sensual," in any way.

My only real concern is that we don't jump to conclusions about people who are still developing and growing, and have not reached the same place as us.

I am with you, in some ways. In our earlier years; I had to tell my wife that if she was wearing "war paint" I couldn't kiss her. I found it very repulsive to get smeared with all that red stuff. (Lipstick). And, it doesn't taste good. I hope I am not out of line here, just trying to make a point.

And Ed - I quote your post -

"The female mindset seems to base self value upon physical appearance & desirability. The various cultures of Earth seem to have this one trait in common. God implanted in women's nature the desire toward her husband, or to get a husband." Have you ever noticed how men think the prettiest woman is the most valuable? They certainly flock around them at church. You don't think men might have made women feel worthless if they're ugly? Have you ever looked at cultural norms when you formulate theories such as this?

Surely what people - male and female - are really looking for is love, and it's that empty place that can only be filled with God's love that drives. But we drink from broken cisterns.

Men might not like the taste of the lipstick, but the "painted lady" appears to have some magic.

quote:

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My only real concern is that we don't jump to conclusions about people who are still developing and growing, and have not reached the same place as us.

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I completely agree with the above statement.

We are all at different levels of Jacob's ladder on our climb towards the Kingdom of God.

Let us discuss these issues, yes, however, let us also respect the person's convictions on this and other similar topics, and leave it to the Holy Spirit to do the rest.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Chantale Bérubé ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chantale Bérubé:
As I was reading to posts above i was kinda of disapointed. I didn't start this topic for everyone to insult or juge or make comments about poeple who wear make up. I started this topic because i want to find answers and right now almos evryone is trowing in there thoughts or convictions. I find it really sad that the only thing that's going on in my eyes, in this topic, is critism.
Anyways, that's what i had to say.

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Just wanted to say, I agree with your last sentence.

I know some ladies who are heavy on the make up; but the are more Christian than others, in the church, who wear none.