Prophets and Kings--In the Court of Babylon-- 486

"In acquiring the wisdom of the Babylonians, Daniel and his companions were far more successful than their fellow students; but their learning did not come by chance. They obtained their knowledge by the faithful use of their powers, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. They placed themselves in connection with the Source of all wisdom, making the knowledge of God the foundation of their education. In faith they prayed for wisdom, and they lived their prayers. They placed themselves where God could bless
them. They avoided that which would weaken their powers, and improved every opportunity to become intelligent in all lines of learning. They followed the rules of life that could not fail to give them strength of intellect. They sought
to acquire knowledge for one purpose--that they might honor God. They realized that in order to stand as representatives of true religion amid the false religions of heathenism they must have clearness of intellect and must perfect a Christian character. And God Himself was their teacher. Constantly praying, conscientiously studying, keeping in touch with the Unseen, they walked with God as did Enoch."

What does this mean; to "be perfect in Him?"

Charlene

Why do we always say something like: "We can become," as if "perfection" is something way into the distant future; obscure to all but the most "obedient" believers?

Most of the texts I see on perfection seem to suggest that perfection is not something we have to wait for.

Let me repeat the first paragraph from my last post, so we can catch the drift better of where I am headed:

The apostles seemed like they were the first real eyewitnesses of “perfection” happening in someone – through our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is only through Christ, that the impossible, becomes possible: “For by a single offering; He has perfected for all time, those who are sanctified…” (Heb.10:14).

So here we have a close relationship with perfection, and sanctification. To the disciples, perfection seemed so real – especially to Paul; that he quite naturally referred to his readers as “perfect,” and, even counted himself in with them; even though, paradoxically, Paul did show that he recognized the fact that he had not yet fully reached perfection:

1 Cor. 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Phil.3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

So we have a connection between sanctification and perfection. And, we have mixed ideas about when a person really is “perfect,” or “sanctified. Now what?

I have found two quotes that seem to sound good; yet, I find, they add to the same confusion I have been expressing. Let us look at the quotes first; then I will try to explain what I mean:

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True sanctification means perfect love, perfect obedience, perfect conformity to the will of God. We are to be sanctified to God through obedience to the truth. Our conscience must be purged from dead works to serve the living God. We are not yet perfect; but it is our privilege to cut away from the entanglements of self and sin, and advance to perfection. Great possibilities, high and holy attainments, are placed within the reach of all.

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Those who experience the sanctification of the Bible will manifest a spirit of humility. Like Moses, they have had a view of the awful majesty of holiness, and they see their own unworthiness in contrast with the purity and exalted perfection of the Infinite One.

It seems from these two SOP quotes, that we are being told that sanctification is closely tied to perfection; and that Christ is intimately attached to both sanctification, and perfection. It would be good to dig deeper into the meaning and depth of Christ’s connection, to OUR perfection. What does He want us to know about it?

In other places in the Bible, the Apostle Paul declares that “He that hath begun a good work in you; will perform, (ie. Complete), it until the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil.1:6).

Is that why he urges us to steadily advance towards “perfection?”

Heb. 6:1 tells us: “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,” to reach the state of “full-grown men,” (1 Cor.14:20, Phillips), so that we may experience coming closer and closer “to mature manhood, measuring by nothing less than the FULL stature of Christ.” (Eph.4:13, NEB).

Because it is He “whom we preach, warning every man PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.”

What is the true relationship of Christ to our perfection? I don’t get this yet. It sounds like all the doctrines on perfection teach that we gradually get better, over time…and to me, that sounds like the echo of evolution, which in essence, teaches that sin gets better over time. What is the Bible truth about sin? How should we relate the sin problem, to perfection, without teaching evolutionary dogma?

There must be a reason that the Bible mentions warning every man PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.”

Is it because, as Seventh Day Adventists; it is He “whom we preach, warning every man, in all wisdom, that we may,” what? “That we may,” what?

“That we may present every man PERFECT IN Christ Jesus!!” (see Col.1:28).

Now this subject is getting really confusing. How do you or I present anyone as “PERFECT in Christ Jesus?” What could this possibly mean to the church today; or to the individual believer?
Those who are presented "PERFECT" in Christ; whatever way that happens, or, whatever that means; are thos that "Wait upon the Lord..." What do you guys think?

The other example is the prodigal son. The father did not even wait to give the son a bath. He covered him with the coat of sonship, put the ring on his finger and related to him as his son. That son was perfect to that father. So with our Father in heaven.

Beings we are not born "perfect", we must become perfect, hence the use of that term. If you put it in the future distant...then that is how you see it, not me. He covers me with His robe as i journey up the narrow path.

As far as the "How" i thought the Quote was a very good formula for success. However, when we submit to God with a humble and contrite spirit, it is He that does the perfecting, what we need to do is cooperate with him, which is also covered in the quote.

Jesus began perfect and plus He became perfect. so becoming perfect obviouosly has nothing to do with gradually out growing unknown defects of character over a lifetime of sinning and repenting.

Why do so many people insist, in light of the example of Jesus, that born again believers spend the rest of their life overcoming this and that imperfection of character? The Bible simple does not support this idea.

quote:

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Perfection Through Christ's Merits
That I May Know Him
Page 130

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

Christ presents before us the highest perfection of Christian character, which throughout our lifetime we should aim to reach. . . . Concerning this perfection Paul writes: "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after. . . . I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:12-15). . . .

How can we reach the perfection specified by our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ--our Great Teacher? Can we meet His requirement and attain to so lofty a standard? We can, else Christ would not have enjoined us to do so. He is our righteousness. In His humanity He has gone before us and wrought out for us perfection of character. We are to have the faith in Him that works by love and purifies the soul. Perfection of character is based upon that which Christ is to us. If we have constant dependence on the merits of our Saviour, and walk in His footsteps, we shall be like Him, pure and undefiled.

Our Saviour does not require impossibilities of any soul. He expects nothing of His disciples that He is not willing to give them grace and strength to perform. He would not call upon them to be perfect if He had not at His command every perfection of grace to bestow on the ones upon whom He would confer so high and holy a privilege. He has assured us that He is more willing to give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him than parents are to give good gifts to their children.

Our work is to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection that Christ in His life on the earth attained in every phase of character. He is our example. In all things we are to strive to honor God in character. In falling day by day so far short of the divine requirements, we are endangering our soul's salvation. We need to understand and appreciate the privilege with which Christ invests us, and to show our determination to reach the highest standard. We are to be wholly dependent on the power that He has promised to give us.

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I looked up the meaning of "strive" in the dictionary:

1 to devote serious effort or energy
2 to struggle in opposition

What does it mean to strive to attain in our sphere of action the perfection?

I personally believe it is possible to attain perfection in Christ. If it is not possible He would not have required it from us. As the quote above says it is possible only through dependence on the merits of Christ and following in His footsteps. Amen

In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

[ March 13, 2002: Message edited by: Avalee ]

quote:

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The Science of Holiness
Page 131
Chapter 125

It is our lifework to be reaching forward to the perfection of Christian character, striving constantly for conformity to God's will. Day by day we are to press upward, ever upward, until of us it can be said, "Ye are complete in him" (Co. 2:10)

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The whole 125th chapter of the book "That I May Know Him" should be read..what a blessing.

This tells me that we are to be striving day by day, constantly...Satan for sure does not rest in working to get us to fall...so we need to be constantly on alert to satans temptations. We can not afford to let our guard down for one moment. Amen

Your post is a welcome addition to this line of study.

I have a question; which will likely spawn more questions; but, I guess that's what this is all for?

When are we "complete in Him?"

What do you see this book you have quoted from as making it's main point about regarding perfection, and when it is that we "arrive?"