Mike,
Please understand. I have gone over this on nearly every thread that james is involved in. I have spelled out just where my studies have taken me. I would like to suggest you reread my posts rather than me restating all that I have said. I have made very clear, several times, the answers to the questions you have asked. In fact it surprises me that you ask where we differ....have you really read my posts carefuly, i think the answers are there.

Forgive me if i just don't have the energy right now to rehash it all again.

I am very concerned about James theology on many fronts, his presentations on quite a few subjects are filled with errors. I have gone over these things with James on other forums and he has not moved from his posted position. I pray you not get caught up in the errors of his theology that i have addressed in my posts.

[ June 20, 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Charlene Van Hook ]

Charlene, I am pretty sure you agree with the following quote from my last post:

"We are not saved because we obey the law, instead we are able to obey the law because we are saved. We are not lost because we disobey the law, instead we are unable to obey the law because we are lost."

I am also pretty sure that James Saptenno believes this way too. Thus I am led to conclude that the problems are merely symantics, and that in reality we all believe the same thing.

Mike,

This is what james said:
"All of you have given me your reasoning based on the doctrine and church teaching and the SOP, but I countered it all based on the Scripture."

"As I say I will counter verse by verse to show that the Ten Commandments was over and keeping it will only lead to condemnation and death, but you just ignoring it."

I do not believe in the doctrine of the above quotes and I hope you do not either. James is not a believeing member of our church nor does he uphold our doctrine of faith/enpowering Grace and belief in the Spirit of Prophecy.....And it taints all of his theology.

I will not waste my time reading any more of his error.

Reflecting Christ--- Obedience, the Fruit of Faith
-PG- 274
The so-called faith in Christ which professes to release men from the obligation of obedience to God is not faith, but presumption. "By grace
are ye saved through faith" (Eph. 2:8). but "faith, if it hath not works, is
dead" (James 2:17). Jesus said of Himself before He came to earth, "I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart" (Ps. 40:8). And just before He ascended again to heaven, He declare, "I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love" (John 15:10). The Scriptures says, "Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments" (1 John 2:3). . . ."

Having the law written on our hearts does not do away with the law.....have you noticed there was no answer to my question about the sanctuary that i asked James........I guess the standard of righteousness/God's Character/the law of Liberty/the Ten Commandments , used as the measuring stich during the judgement, in the Most Holy Place does not fit into his theology.

He is not in harmony with the Doctrines of the bible nor the doctrines of the church/truth not with the Spirit of Prophecy.

Fair enough. But do you agree with the following quote:

"We are not saved because we obey the law, instead we are able to obey the law because we are saved. We are not lost because we disobey the law, instead we are unable to obey the law because we are lost."

Mike i will say it in my own words.

Obedience to God's laws is the fruit of faith that works by love. works=chose to obey, through the enabling power of Grace.

Disobedience to the laws of God is the result of sin/disobedience which separates us from the source of love and source of God's enabling power of Grace. When one is not attatched to the vine....he can bear no good fruit.

One will not be saved because he obeys...one does not mertit being saved....Only through the merits of Jesus Christ emparted , and we take hold of His divine nature, that enables us to develop His character/will/obedience, are we saved.

No one will be saved in his 'known' disobedience. We are not saved in our sins, but from our sins.

[ June 21, 2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Charlene Van Hook ]

I think that obedience to the Law does not save us on the contrary it condemn us, but disobedience to the law indeed condemn us and make us lost our life and heaven. That’s why the Law must GO because keeping it will not save you but only condemns you and breaking it will surely condemns you, to be substituted with a life after the Spirit by faith in Christ. This is to remain alive and to be fit for heaven.

“But sin will not be your master because you are not under the Law but under grace” – Romans 6:14.

Under grace means God remember our sins and iniquities no more if we remain in Christ by faith. If we are under the law, one single sin will condemn us and death is the wages (as what Adam did). And surely we will do many sins because being under the law empowers sin to work and dominate us since the “power of sin is the Law.”

In his love

James S.

Charlene.

Quote.
HAVING THE LAW WRITTEN ON OUR HEARTS DOES NOT DO AWAY WITH THE LAW.....have you noticed there was no answer to my question about the sanctuary that i asked James........I guess the standard of righteousness/God's Character/the law of Liberty/the Ten Commandments , used as the measuring stich during the judgement, in the Most Holy Place does not fit into his theology.
Unquote.

Tell me honestly with common sense, if you have deeds that are in harmony with the law as fruits of the Spirit, does the Law has any meanings to you? If yes, in what part?

If you don’t know how to answer it, then how would you know the truth of the Gospel of Christ?

I will reply to your sanctuary doctrine later.

In His love

James S.

James, I have tried to support you on these threads, but I can no longer do that. You state your ideas too strongly, and I'm beginning to realize that your ideas are actually wrong. You really believe that the law ended at the cross, and that the Sabbath and health laws are no longer necessary. This is a lie, and I hope someday you will discover your mistake.

In the meantime, I am requesting that the moderators of MSDAOL deny you access to this forum in accordance with the rules of this forum.

James,

quote:

---

If Christ is in him (James) keeping the law, then how is James not keeping the law? And if James is keeping the law he is condemned to death, for keeping the 10 commandments will kill us according to James.

---

quote:

---

Firstly, Christ in me is not keeping the law for me but changing my self-love character to his own character of love that seeks no self.

---

Hmmm.... How can your character be changed into a character of love that doesn't seek self, and self (sin) still be your motivation for keeping the law? You are very deeply divided in your basic thinking. If Christ is in you changing you, then your motivations have to change to, yet you deny that they do. You can't have it both ways James, either your motivations change, or they don't change. Either Christ in you changes you into His image or it doesn't. And if it does then you keep the law from pure motives, not from selfishness. Your thinking seems schizophrenic in this area.

James,

quote:

---

I think that obedience to the Law does not save us on the contrary it condemn us, but disobedience to the law indeed condemn us and make us lost our life and heaven.

---

Here is a paraphrase of your sentence above: Obedience to the law condemns us, but disobedience to the law condemns us.

Do you see your dichotomy yet? Here is your thinking by analogy: A police officer will write me a ticket for breaking the traffic laws if I obey them, but if I disobey the traffic laws I will get a ticket from a police officer for breaking them.