Where really are the dead?

Why is this such an important question?

I ask this question as I just heard on an "It Is Written" telecast that one in every three Americans believe they have communicated with the dead.

Does the Bible have a clear answer to such an important question?

If so, then why are so many in error in their answer to this question?

Where are the Dead according to the Bible ?

Job 14:
7 ¶ For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Until God calls the dead, they stay where ever they are put by the living.

A day was forseen by Isaiah, when other lords than God would seek to rule oner all the people of Earth. It would be during that time that God would behgin to pour His direct judgements upon the peoples of Earth.

Those false lords would be slain, and them that remained; stripped of their power while awaiting His visitation. Earth then shall be warned by God's living servants who obey Him.

A special ressurection will be brought to pass and notible saints and sinners shall stand awaiting to see Him come, some to see shame; and some to see honour.

Earth will have been warned and seperated into the honest and loyal and the self-seeking and traitors. He will return in all their sight, and all the loyal dead shall hear his world cracking globe encircling shout, they shall then rise from where-ever they laid in death - now dead no more forever. They will rise to meet Him in the clouds, then the loyal who were still living rise. All the rest are dead and unburied upon the frozen Earth for 1000 years till the final accounting.

Isaiah 26:

9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.


13 O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name.
14 They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.


19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 ¶ Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The fact is that the bible indicates that there is no communication between those dead and the living. However, that doesn’t mean that a persons soul or spirit cannot go to heaven or hell.

Jesus taught a distinction between the body and soul:

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:28


Paul understood that the soul can be away from the body in heaven:

“1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” 2 Cor 5

So we see that scripture indicates that the soul can a does exist away from the body.

Welcome, Lobo, to Maritime SDA OnLine.

I think you would agree that we can't base a doctrine on one or two Bible texts that seems to be telling us something, therefore, let me ask you a couple of questions:

1 - Does the Bible ever contradict Itself?

2 - Have you searched the whole Bible, both the Old and the New Testaments, on this topic?

In other words, I challenge you to look up any verse that deals with the topic of death, dead, etc. and share what you find with us here.

Daryl,
Thank you for the warm welcome, I appreciate it.

To answer your questions, I agree one text does not a doctrine make. And I have studied this in both the old and new testaments. And to be honest, I don’t think the issue is crystal clear no matter what your position.

There are many texts that relate to this and I’m not sure you really want me to take up that much space posting all of them. So let me just outline for you what I think scripture teaches on this issue:

Man is made up of three parts: Spirit, Soul and Body

1 Thessalonians 5:23 says, "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Heb 14:12 “For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”

I confess I really don’t understand the distinction between the spirit and soul, because they seem to be used interchangeably, i.e. Is 26:9, Job 7:11, etc.


There is a difference between man's breath and spirit:

"Thus says the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives breath to the people on it, and spirit to those who walk in it." Isaiah 42:5

1 Samuel 18:1 "Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself."

2 Samuel 5:8 "And David said on that day, 'Whoever would strike the Jebusites, let him reach the lame and the blind, who are hated by David's soul, through the water tunnel.' Therefore they say, the blind or the lame shall not come into the house."

Mark 14:34 "And He said to them, 'My soul is deeply grieved to the point of death; remain here and keep watch.'"

Psalm 107:26 "They rose up to the heavens, they went down to the depth; their souls melted away in their misery."

Luke 2:35 " . . . and a sword will pierce even your own soul to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."


Destination After Death

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake." Philippians 1:21-24

"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord—for we walk by faith, not by sight—we are of good courage, I say . . . and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:6-8


The Soul is Conscious After Death

Revelation 6:9-11 "And when He broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, wilt Thou refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, should be completed also."

Obviously a person's soul is more than his breath. These robed souls under the altar, crying out to God, are not "breaths." Note that these souls are conscious after death. They were martyred and after death are very much alive in Heaven. They have the ability to cry out to God and to wear white robes. God Himself tells them that more of their brethren will join them after they are killed.

Again in Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgement was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Additional Scriptures Indicating the Consciousness of the Soul after Death

Job 26:5-6; Matthew 22:31, 32 ; Luke 16:19-31 ; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; Isaiah 14:9-11; 15-17


When the Soul Leaves the Body, the Body Sleeps

The term "sleep" is never applied to the soul or the spirit, but only the body. The soul and the spirit continue to exist after death. The body "sleeps" and goes back to dust. The following verses refer to the state of the body's death as sleep:

Matthew 9:24 "He began to say, 'Depart; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.' And they were laughing at Him." John 11:11 "This He said, and after that He said to them, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, that I may awaken him out of sleep.'"

Acts 7:59-60 "And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!' And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord do not hold this sin against them!' And having said this, he fell asleep."

Acts 13:36 "For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers, and underwent decay."

1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus."


God Works Through Man's Spirit

Proverbs 20:27 "The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, searching all the innermost parts of his being."


Man's Spirit has intelligence & emotions:
(1 Corinthians 2:11)

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God."

(John 11:33)
"When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her, also weeping, He was deeply moved in spirit and was troubled."


The Soul and the Spirit are Separated from the Body at Death

Luke 8:54-55 ". . . he, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, 'Child arise!' And her spirit returned, and she rose immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat."

Matthew 10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the soul and the body in hell."

James 2:26 "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."

1 Kings 17:21,22 "Then he stretched himself upon the child three times, and called to the Lord, and said, 'O Lord my God, I pray to Thee, let this child's life return to him.' And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah, and the life of the child returned to him and he revived."

I looked it up and the term "death" which is "thanatas" in Greek, does not mean to be non-existent or unconscious, it rather means to be separated. Some examples:

Colossians 2:13 "And when you were dead (separated from God—not "unconscious") in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh . . . "

Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten."
(note - the context of this verse is "under the sun." It is saying that the dead do not know anything that is going on "under the sun"(on earth) vss. 3, 6—after they die and are in Heaven. (Eccl. 12:7)

See also Ephesians 2:1 and Revelation 3:1

So based on this I feel that the scriptures teach that the soul and spirit are more than breath and that a person’s soul and spirit are separated from their bodies when they die. The soul is conscious in Heaven (or hell) after death, awaiting the resurrection of the body.

Scripture does not teach that those dead know what is going on here on earth or that the souls cannot die. After the 2nd death all sin, hell, and satan are dead so there could not be souls of sinners still around.

So you asked for it, this is what I currently believe. I’m open to other ideas as scripture is not clear to me on this so there is always room for interpretation.

The answer is very simple, if you also include verse 8:

quote:

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Isaiah 14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

---

As fir trees obviously can't really rejoice and the cedars of Lebanon can't actually speak, the same is true of hell (sheol= grave) and of the dead.

Sheol (hell, meaning grave) is personified as rising to greet the king of Babylon in verse 9 just as the fir and cedar trees were personified in verse 8 to rejoice and speak, and we know that trees can't rejoice and speak, therefore, what is true of the trees is also true of hell or the grave. In fact, hell, or more precisely the grave, moves to make room for the dead in the grave, or in this case to make room for grave of the king of Babylon at his death.

As I said, the Bible doesn't contradict itself. If it says that the thoughts perish at death, then the thoughts perish at death. Nothing being personified about that in the verse in Psalms 146:4.