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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46192
04/07/03 09:38 PM
04/07/03 09:38 PM
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What is the every living soul that died in the sea in the following Bible verse? quote:
Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea.
Sounds like sea life to me which would tell me that a living soul is anything that lives and moves and breathes, and consequently can die such as in the instance of this Bible reference.
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46193
04/07/03 09:48 PM
04/07/03 09:48 PM
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If, as you say, that the soul of the Christian goes to heaven at death, then how do you explain the following universal statement in the first part of the following verse? quote:
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD......
If the soul of the Christian goes to heaven at death, then why do they not praise the Lord?
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46194
04/07/03 10:29 PM
04/07/03 10:29 PM
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quote:
If, as you say, that the soul of the Christian goes to heaven at death, then how do you explain the following universal statement in the first part of the following verse?
quote:
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD......
If the soul of the Christian goes to heaven at death, then why do they not praise the Lord?
Come on Daryl, you have only posted part of the text and left our the other parts that explain it.
“16 The highest heavens belong to the LORD , but the earth he has given to man. 17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD , those who go down to silence; 18 it is we who extol the LORD , both now and forevermore.”
So who is it that goes “down to silence”? The evil dead who don’t go to heaven:
“17 Let me not be put to shame, O LORD , for I have cried out to you; but let the wicked be put to shame and lie silent in the grave. 18 Let their lying lips be silenced, for with pride and contempt they speak arrogantly against the righteous.” Ps 31:17
Also notice that the good can praise or extol God now and FOREVER! How can a dead person in the gave extol God forever? They can’t. So the good are not in the grave because we have just seen that those in the grave must be silent. And that those in the grave are not “good” but evil (Ps 55:15).
“15 But God will redeem my life from the grave; he will surely take me to himself.” Ps 49:15
Notice that a person in a grave is dead and doesn’t have a life. So if someone is dead how can their life be redeem from it? It can’t! So God saved this life from the grave and sent it to heaven (Ps 86:13, Prov 15:24, etc)
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46195
04/07/03 10:51 PM
04/07/03 10:51 PM
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I notice you didn't have anything to say about the other post about every living soul in the sea died. As far as the dead praise not the Lord goes, the verse in Psalms says just that. Here is the verse in its entirety which doesn't change anything. quote:
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
And here it is again with the other two verses in the KJV:
quote:
Psalms 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.
The Bible says that the dead praise not the Lord. It didn't specify either the righteous dead or the wicked dead but the dead in general, they who go down in silence. When we die, we are silent, we speak not and praise not, but go down into the grave in silence. The Bible also says that in the day that they die, their thoughts perish. Again it doesn't specify whether the dead are righteous or wicked. And when it says every living soul in the sea died, it means that the soul died and didn't soar off into either heaven or hell.
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46196
04/07/03 11:29 PM
04/07/03 11:29 PM
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How about we look at this from the beginning of the Bible where the life of man began, examining each text before moving on to the next one? Let us begin with Genesis 2:7. quote:
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
In this verse we discover that the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into man the breath of life in which man became a living soul.
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46197
04/08/03 12:56 AM
04/08/03 12:56 AM
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One thing I am learning from this is that we should first focus on the clear Bible texts and leave what could be considered as the questionable ones out of the study, at least for now, and see what we learn from doing it this way.
With that in mind, what is the next first clear text on what happens when somebody or something dies? I say that as animals, birds, fish, etc. died as well as humans. In fact, they are all referred to as souls, are they not? As man became a living soul in Genesis 2:7, didn't all the other animals, birds, fish, etc. also become living souls?
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46198
04/09/03 02:49 AM
04/09/03 02:49 AM
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quote:
The Bible says that the dead praise not the Lord. It didn't specify either the righteous dead or the wicked dead but the dead in general, they who go down in silence. When we die, we are silent, we speak not and praise not, but go down into the grave in silence.
The texts I quoted point out that those that “go down” to the pit or hell are evil doers and therefore silent. There are no texts that I’m aware of that say those that go down to hell are righteous.
quote:
I notice you didn't have anything to say about the other post about every living soul in the sea died.
Sorry, I missed that text. However, after reviewing it I think this is an issue of translation. Only the KJV states “soul”. Every other translation, including the NKJV states “living creature”. So the idea that animals are considered souls or having souls is certainly suspect with it only being supported by one text in one translation.
quote:
In this verse we discover that the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, breathed into man the breath of life in which man became a living soul.
And yet in Matt 10:28 we discover that the body can die while the soul lives on. As such, your interpretation of Gen 2:7 must be inaccurate, because Matt 10:28 is very clear.
quote:
With that in mind, what is the next first clear text on what happens when somebody or something dies? I say that as animals, birds, fish, etc. died as well as humans. In fact, they are all referred to as souls, are they not? As man became a living soul in Genesis 2:7, didn't all the other animals, birds, fish, etc. also become living souls?
If that is the case, why does the “breath of life” from the animals not need to return to God like the “breath” from a human?
“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?” ECC 3:21
If there is nothing unique about the spirit (or breath as you say) of a human, why doesn’t it also return to the ground like an animals?
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46199
04/08/03 03:43 PM
04/08/03 03:43 PM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2014
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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When I read this verse this is what I understand out of it. What makes up the soul is:
Dust of ground + breath of Life= living soul
7 And the LORD God formed man of the 1. dust of the ground, and 2. breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man 3. became a living soul.
First God formed Adam, then He breathed into this dead body His breath and Adam became a living soul. Take away that breath and you are just lump of clay again.
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46200
04/08/03 04:07 PM
04/08/03 04:07 PM
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quote:
First God formed Adam, then He breathed into this dead body His breath and Adam became a living soul. Take away that breath and you are just lump of clay again.
Then how do you explain this teaching from our Lord Yeshua?
“28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10
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Re: Where Really Are The Dead?
#46201
04/08/03 04:58 PM
04/08/03 04:58 PM
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quote:
Lobo wrote:
If that is the case, why does the “breath of life” from the animals not need to return to God like the “breath” from a human?
“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?” ECC 3:21
If there is nothing unique about the spirit (or breath as you say) of a human, why doesn’t it also return to the ground like an animals?
That is an interesting question that I will need to research before responding to your question.
As far as a different translation of the Bible goes, I am more inclined to accept the KJV than most other translations. Better still is going to the original Hebrew/Greek where applicable.
While typing this out I just thought about another couple of interesting Bible texts that I need to post here as I may forget them later on. One is about what Christ said to the thief on the cross and the other is what was said about David and where he isn't yet. More on this later when the time is more appropriate as I first want to pursue the discussion on the make up of the living being, be it human or otherwise.
Also, if I am not respoinding to other pertinent questions at this time, it is because I either don't want to jump all over the place, or want to do some researching first, or both. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
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