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What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46340
03/07/04 11:18 PM
03/07/04 11:18 PM
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I have been doing some reading which has resulted in the creation of this topic, and the following question:
What does the Bible, the SOP, etc. have to say about being "slain" or prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46341
03/08/04 02:49 AM
03/08/04 02:49 AM
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The "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon is just another part of the charismatic "revival" sweeping the world, right along with fake "tongues" and questionable "healings." The fact that such things are seen at meetings run by people such as Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland, people who teach decidedly unbiblical things, speaks volumes. Isaiah 8:20 says there's "no light in them." I found a pretty good, Bible-based (non-SDA) analysis at http://www.megspace.com/religion/museltof/slain.html There's another web site that has online videos of such things going on at Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, John Scotland, Rodney Howard-Browne, Benny Hinn meetings -- people being "slain in the Spirit", mooing like cows, laughing like deranged maniacs ("holy laughter"), exhibiting what they call "spiritual drunkenness." One doesn't have to look at these things very long to realize that this is not the fruit of the Spirit of God. I'll post a link if you think that's appropriate. It is a supposed anti-cult web site though, and has a section on "refuting SDA sabbath keepers" too. A while back for curiosity I looked at a Rod Parsley meeting on Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), and once he got going good he looked like he was hopped up on PCP or something; wild-eyed and out of control, racing around the stage, all sweaty, red-faced and hoarse. He'd run towards a certain section of the crowd, and 5 or 10 people would "fall out" as he neared them. He never even touched them; he'd get 10 feet away or so, and there they went, down to the floor, out like a light. It looked more like mass hypnosis, or mass hysteria, than anything else. The organist was really going at it, keeping things at fever pitch; it sounded more like the soundtrack for an episode of "The Twilight Zone" or an amusement park 'crazy house' than a religious service. [rephrasing edit] [ March 08, 2004, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: John ]
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46342
03/08/04 02:50 PM
03/08/04 02:50 PM
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Active Member 2011
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
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quote:
Originally posted by John:
The "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon is just another part of the charismatic "revival" sweeping the world, right along with fake "tongues" and questionable "healings." The fact that such things are seen at meetings run by people such as Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland, people who teach decidedly unbiblical things, speaks volumes. Isaiah 8:20 says there's "no light in them."
Having spent a day reading from "Life Sketches ..." and other texts and books at the http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org page, Ill just want to comment that there is more to "being prostrated by the spirit" and "miracle healing" than what is seen from the two "preachers" mentioned above. Quite on the contrary these two experiences seems to have been not unknown by Ellen and others in the beginning of the advent movement. Might it be that the work done by those "with no light" is done to make us affraid of Gods power. To make an economical example, if enough false money of good enough quality not to be readily identified is realeased into use, all money will loose its credibility and thus its value.
Quotes:
For six months not a cloud intervened between me and my Saviour. Whenever there was a proper opportunity I bore my testimony in meeting, and was greatly blessed. At times the Spirit of the Lord rested upon me in such power that my strength was taken away. This was a trial to some of those who had come out from the formal churches, and often words were spoken meant for my ear, which grieved me. They did not believe that any one could be so filled with the Spirit of the Lord as to lose their strength. I began to fear. I reasoned thus: Am I not justified in holding my peace in meeting, and restraining my feelings, when my testimony causes such opposition, even in meeting, and in the hearts of some of those older in experience, and in years, than myself? I thought I would be just as faithful in living out my religion, and not bear my testimony. I often felt pressed by the Spirit of God to speak in meeting; but did not, and was sensible that the Spirit of God was grieved. I even kept away from meeting where some of those attended who were annoyed by my testimony. I withheld my testimony for fear of offending my brethren, and that uninterrupted communion with God 27
which I had enjoyed for months was broken, and I have not since, for so long a time, been perfectly free in the Lord. {2SG 26.1}
But soon one of the family which had been most forward in opposing me, while praying fell prostrate like one dead. His friends feared he was dying; but while they stood weeping over him, rubbing his hands, and using means for his restoration, he gained strength to praise God, and shout with a voice of triumph. He was unable to return home that night. While attending an evening meeting I was much blessed, and again lost my strength. Another of the family mentioned, said he had no faith that it was the Spirit of God that was upon me. He selected one who was considered a man of God, a devoted humble Christian, and said, "If this is genuine, why does it not come upon Bro. R., and he lose his strength?" Bro. R. was immediately prostrated, and as soon as he could give utterance to his feelings, declared that it was of God. {2SG 27.1}
All had believed me honest, but thought I could command my feelings, and not suffer my strength to be taken away. The brother who opposed me was brought to see that he was fighting against God. While in a prayer-meeting, the blessing of the Lord rested upon him, and his countenance seemed to shine with the glory of God, and he fell prostrate to the floor. When he recovered strength he confessed 28
he had done wrong in opposing me. Not long after this, while the same family were engaged in prayer, the Spirit of the Lord rested upon them. I had the particulars from my father who happened in at that time. He said there was scarcely one to help another. They were prostrated by the power of God, while calling upon his name. Cold formality began to melt, and then they regretted that they had opposed me, and confessed their error. {2SG 27.2}
other verses of interest...
{LS 38.1} {LS 38.2} {LS 38.3} {LS 55.1} {LS 55.2} {LS 71.2} {LS 71.3}
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46343
03/08/04 04:32 PM
03/08/04 04:32 PM
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Right you are, Thomas, God can certainly prostrate us in response to His presence. It happened to Daniel, Ezekiel, and John on more than one occasion. We just need to be careful that any such experience is indeed from God.
I guess what I had in mind was more the stuff that's paraded out on TV as being the working of God these days, by people who teach unscriptural things. Not once in the Bible is there an instance of someone being 'slain in the Spirit' as the result of another person popping them on the forehead, or however they do it on TV these days.
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46344
03/08/04 05:34 PM
03/08/04 05:34 PM
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I read the same thing in the biographical sketch of EGW from Testmonies for the Church, Volume 1, pages 45 to 47 inclusive, however, I have also read that there are counterfeits to this as well.
How then do we determine the true from the false?
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46345
03/08/04 06:19 PM
03/08/04 06:19 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Well, "matt 7: 15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
Luke 11: 5Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'
7"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' 8I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness[5] he will get up and give him as much as he needs.
9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11"Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[6] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"
James 1: 16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. 17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
There probably are others that apply too, but these came first to mind.
/Thomas
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46346
03/08/04 11:08 PM
03/08/04 11:08 PM
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Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
Plowing
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Very very true Thomas!
I am researching it, but as I recall, every vision she had that involved physical signs was private. That is, either at home alone, among Advent family in prayer or study, or among brethren in counsel with the Lord over an issue or question.
I cannot find one, yet, that was in public.
Does anyone else find this or know of a public one (meaning among non-SDAs or during a church service)?
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46347
03/09/04 01:56 AM
03/09/04 01:56 AM
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That seems to be a very good and solid point, Ikan, and perhaps the real difference between what EGW and others at those meetings experienced in comparison to those showy and very public meetings in which a large multitude of people are present both in person and via TV land.
I don't think the examples of this in the Bible were showy either, however, we should examine both the Bible and the SOP to be certain of that.
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46348
03/09/04 03:32 AM
03/09/04 03:32 AM
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This set me a-searching too, and here are some things I found. In addition to the SOP itself, I've also looked at The Spirit of Prophecy Treasure Chest, ©1960 The Ellen White Estate; a book that used to come with the Prophetic Guidance course from Voice of Prophecy, now out of print. And Notes and Papers, from the EGW Estate and Andrews University, 7th printing (1974); a book that accompanies the seminary course on "Prophetic Guidance." As far as Ellen White exhibiting physical phenomena while in vision in public, it appears that she did. While I couldn't find a specifically narrated account of a public vision with signs present, they are mentioned by those who were intimately familiar with Sis. White's work. Arthur L. White, in the article "How the Visions Were Given" in the Spirit of Prophecy Treasure Chest, p. 19, wrote: "We might divide these manifestations into three general groups:
1. Visions given in public, and accompanied by the marked physical phenomena.
2. Visions given during the hours of the night, often referred to as the prophetic dreams.
3. Visions given during periods of prayer or writing, unaccompanied by physical phenomena." The public visions with physical phenomena noted always had the instances of EGW not breathing for minutes or hours, even being examined by medical doctors; yet "at the same time her movements and gestures, which are frequent, are free and graceful, and cannot be hindered nor controlled by the strongest person," according to James White ( Life Incidents, p. 272). George I. Butler, former GC President, wrote that "For nearly thirty years these visions have been given with greater or less frequency, and have been witnessed by many, oftentimes by unbelievers as well as those believing them. . . .While she is in vision, her breathing entirely ceases. No breath ever escapes her nostrils or lips when in this condition. This has been proved by many witnesses, among them physicians of skill, and themselves unbelievers in the visions, on some occasions being appointed by a public congregation for the purpose. . .
"There are none of the disgusting grimaces or contortions which usually attend spiritualist mediums, but calm, dignified, and impressive, her very appearance strikes the beholder with reverence and solemnity. There is nothing fanatical in her appearance." -- Review & Herald, June 9, 1874. (quoted in Spirit of Prophecy Treasure Chest, p. 27) J.N. Loughborough stated to the 1893 General Conference session: "I have seen Sister White in vision about fifty times. . . .Her last open vision was in 1884, on the camp ground at Portland, Oregon. She has visions at the present time, but they are not open visions in a public assembly. It is a heavenly place to be in, where there is an open vision, as some of those here who have seen her at such times, can testify.
"The first indication that she is about to be taken off in vision is that she loses all strength, like a person suddenly falling down. This state continues not more than five seconds, when she suddenly rises to her feet. She herself says that the first thing she knows an angel stands by her side and touches her and she receives strength." -- General Conference Daily Bulletin, Jan. 29, 1893 (quoted in Notes and Papers, p. 74) Evidently he'd seen her have "open visions in a public assembly", but by this time they had ceased. *** While it is true that in the early Advent experience there were those who were genuinely prostrated before the Lord by His Spirit, we still have some warnings about the counterfeit: "I saw that Satan was working through agents in a number of ways. He was at work through ministers who have rejected the truth and are given over to strong delusions to believe a lie that they might be damned. While they were preaching or praying, some would fall prostrate and helpless, not by the power of the Holy Ghost, but by the power of Satan breathed upon these agents, and through them to the people. While preaching, praying, or conversing, some professed Adventists who had rejected present truth used mesmerism to gain adherents, and the people would rejoice in this influence, for they thought it was the Holy Ghost. Some even that used it were so far in the darkness and deception of the devil that they thought it was the power of God, given them to exercise. They had made God altogether such a one as themselves and had valued His power as a thing of nought." EW 43
"Whenever and wherever the Lord works in giving a genuine blessing, a counterfeit is also revealed, in order to make of none effect the true work of God. Therefore we need to be exceedingly careful, and walk humbly before God, that we may have spiritual eyesalve that we may distinguish the working of the Holy Spirit of God from the working of that spirit that would bring in wild license and fanaticism. 'By their fruits ye shall know them.' Those who are really beholding Christ will be changed into His image, even by the Spirit of the Lord, and will grow up to the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit of God will inspire men with love and purity; and refinement will be manifest in their characters." RH 02-06-94 Lastly, she mentioned that "In the future we shall have special tokens of the influence of the Spirit of God -- especially at times when our enemies are the strongest against us. The time will come when we shall see some strange things; but just in what way, -- whether similar to some of the experiences of the disciples after they received the Holy Spirit following the ascension of Christ, -- I can not say." MS 115, 1908 She spoke of "strange things" that will be coming from God! So it's evident that the "by their fruits ye shall know them" and "to the law and to the testimony" tests will be vital in discerning these things. Like Thomas said, we can't let the counterfeit make us afraid of the real thing. If I gave the impression in the earlier post that I was saying that all 'prostrations of the Spirit' were of the devil, it was unintentional...apologies to all. It's just that the satanic variety appears to be so much more widespread these days -- we need to be careful.
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Re: What Is The Truth About Being Slain or Prostrated by the Holy Spirit?
#46349
03/09/04 03:53 AM
03/09/04 03:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,664
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Well, so much for my theory! Thanks John: good research!
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