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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46498
09/08/03 04:56 PM
09/08/03 04:56 PM
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quote:
The Lord is telling Ananias to go and meet Saul, and Ananias was wondering why considering all the evil this man has done to the saints at Jerusalem.
So we know that prophecy is correct. The Gospel was not given to the Gentiles until Stephen was stoned
Will, how long did it take from this moment until Peter’s dream?
Just because God has plans doesn’t mean that the time he has plans is the time of there fulfillment. And when scripture stated that the gospel went to the gentiles was at Peter’s dream. So yes, God has planned things for a long time, but until they actually occur they remain only plans.
Also, Ananias was referring to Paul, not Peter. Peter got the first official message of taking the message to gentiles, not Paul.
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46499
09/08/03 05:08 PM
09/08/03 05:08 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Hi Lobo,
Acts 9:15 is when Christ is telling Ananias that it is Paul(Saul) who is chosen. let me know what you think.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46500
09/08/03 09:23 PM
09/08/03 09:23 PM
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Will, I guess I don’t understand your point because neither Peter’s dream or Paul officially going to the gentiles (Acts 13:46) meets the timeframe related to Stephen being stoned. So what are you trying to say with God planning to use Paul later for the gentiles?
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46501
09/08/03 09:38 PM
09/08/03 09:38 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Hi Lobo,
Well with Stephen being stoned this was the last straw for the Jews to accept the Gospel not that all of them were like that as we have Nicodemus who followed Christ, but after Stephen was stoned and Saul was on his way to Jerusalem or Damascus..forgot where, but enroute The Lord appeared to him, and this is where it was revealed to him the mystery that the Gentiles were going to be grafted in. Let me know what you think.
God Bless,
Will
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46502
09/08/03 09:52 PM
09/08/03 09:52 PM
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Will, that still was sometime after the Stoning of Stephen. So how can you tie that together?
Do you ever think that you are trying to hold to a certain timeline and bend scripture around it to fit instead of letting scripture speak and then applying a timeline to that? In other words, it seems like you have a preconceived timeline and are trying to fit scripture to?
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46503
09/08/03 11:50 PM
09/08/03 11:50 PM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Hi Lobo, You said: quote:
Do you ever think that you are trying to hold to a certain timeline and bend scripture around it to fit instead of letting scripture speak and then applying a timeline to that
Are you referring to the SDA teaching from the prophecy that Daniel spoke of regarding the 70 weeks and then Messiah would be cut of etc etc..? Yes or no answer will suffice here.
No I'm actually not bending anything. At least I know you don't agree with what Christ said in Acts 9:15..
God Bless,
Will
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46504
09/10/03 02:23 AM
09/10/03 02:23 AM
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quote:
Are you referring to the SDA teaching from the prophecy that Daniel spoke of regarding the 70 weeks and then Messiah would be cut of etc etc..? Yes or no answer will suffice here.
Yes
quote:
No I'm actually not bending anything. At least I know you don't agree with what Christ said in Acts 9:15..
I agree with it, I just don’t agree with your interpretation of it. Jesus saying that he has plans for a person doesn’t mean those plans have officially been enacted until everyone that those plans concern are notified. And since those plans involved all the disciples and Paul, at what time in history did Jesus tell all the disciples that the gospel was going to the gentiles? I feel that time was Peter’s dream because he went and told the entire group after the vision, so that is when they all knew.
What did Ananias do after Jesus told him about Paul? He only told Paul and Paul never told anyone.
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46505
09/10/03 02:44 AM
09/10/03 02:44 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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Thats an interesting point you have there Lobo. However Peter's dream was directed to the fact that he had issues with the gentiles, and that's why God gave Him the dream that he had, and definitely he went to Cornelius and preached and things like that. Anyways what can we gather about Babylon? Is spiritual Babylon going to be or is a world power? a political power?
God Bless,
Will
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46506
09/09/03 09:43 PM
09/09/03 09:43 PM
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Scripture indicates that Babylon is responsible for all the blood of all the saints and prophets:
“5This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.” Rev 17
“20Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.' " Rev 18
“24In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earthRev 18
Jesus indicates that unbelieving Israel is responsible for all the blood of the prophets and saints:
“47"Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them. 48So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' 50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.” Luke 11
Therefore, Babylon is literal Israel!
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Re: Who or What Is "Babylon" and What Is Its Role?
#46507
09/10/03 01:15 PM
09/10/03 01:15 PM
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Lobo,
I am not saying that I agree with you when you say that literal Israel is Babylon, but I do have a few questions surrounding your interpretation:
1 - What do you think will be the fate of Babylon
2 - What you mean by literal Israel?
3 - If Babylon is literal Israel, then what do you think will be the fate of literal Israel?
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