Back to Babylon. I cannot believe God would use Babylon as a symbol for end time Israel. God used Babylon to oppose Israel in the OT. Why would He use Babylon to symbolize Israel in the NT?

Mike, I think that is the point. Modern Israel is not doing what God wants them to do so they are apostate and contrary to God’s plan, just like in the past (OT). That is why God calls to them saying “come out of her my people”. This is a call for the true believers (faith in Jesus as Messiah) to come out of the apostate church of Israel.

So to me calling Israel Babylon makes perfect sense given their current rejection of the messiah.

Lobo, that is the point. God used ancient Babylon to help His chosen people (ancient Israel) to refocus on their mission and message. Thus, it makes sense that God uses symbolic Babylon to help His chosen people (the remnant church) to refocus on their mission and message.

Jesus replaced the nation of Israel with the Christian Church. Jesus is now proclaiming the truth through the church. Nationality no longer means anything. Anyone can convert by embracing Jesus and the truth. Babylon symbolizes those churches which do not advocate the truth. Israel as a nation is no longer a factor.

And on what scriptural basis do you make such assumptions?

Matthew
21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

1 Peter
2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
2:10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

“1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah--how he appealed to God against Israel: 3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? 4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace” Romans 11


Form this text we learn that God has not rejected literal Israel and that those who believe in Jesus from literal Israel are “remnant chosen by grace”. This fact alone precludes gentiles from being the remnant.


“28As far as the gospel is concerned, they [Israel] are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.” Romans 11

What does Paul say? “God’s gifts and call are IRREVOCABLE”. That means it cannot be removed. So God’s call to Israel was not removed.

Lobo, neither one of us believe Jesus' words to the Jews and Paul's words about them are in contradiction. I believe the way our quotes harmonize is by the fact the Church is now God's chosen nation and that Jews and Gentiles are alike His remnant people. Yes, the Jews will always have a special place in the Church since their ancestors belonged to God's original chosen people.

Romans
1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Galatians
3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians
3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Mike, I think our difference lie in relation to prophesy not the gospel or kingdom of God.

I fully agree that all men are the same in terms of being saved, and this group of the saved is termed the kingdom of God. However, that doesn’t mean that all men (groups) have the same roles to play in prophesy.

If you believe the literal word of God you can’t help but understand that literal Israel has a role to play as well as gentiles, the beast power, etc.

So that is why when Jesus accuses Israel of being Babylon, Rev 7 states that the remnant are Jews and gentiles are the great multitude, I believe it. It’s plainly stated and so I believe it.

I apply no preconceived bias or doctrinal ideas to scripture; I just believe it how it is written and in the context it was written.

So with this method of exegesis, I understand that all men are saved the same way, but that doesn’t make gentiles “remnants” of literal Israel.

So since this is only an issue of roles in prophesy and not salvation, it seems actually anti-Semitic to want to remove literal Israel from the remnant and replace it with some other group.