Amen, Mike!

What you said in relation to those two texts that Lobo posted makes sense to me.


And Lobo,

The Bible has a lot to say about the Holy Spirit who is also as much God as Jesus Christ is.

Mike said

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I believe it is important not to misapply the texts which talk about Jesus the uncreated eternal God and the texts which talk about Jesus the incarnate Son of God.

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Mike also said

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the way I understand those texts referring to Jesus as a created being or the son of God is since He "inhabits eternity" (Isa 57:15) whatever has been or will be is always true of Jesus from eternity past to eternity future. The truth about Jesus has always been true and will continue to be true throughout eternity.

Jesus is "the lamb slain from the foundation of world" has always been true. And Jesus is "the son of God born in Bethlehem" has always been true from eterntiy past regardless of our time table and calendar. Jesus has always been the incarnate, created son of Mary and God. But at the same time He has always been a member of the eternal Godhead - life unborrowed and original.

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If all things are always true about Jesus, then how can there be a misapplication?

Shalom

John, if we do not make a distinction between Jesus the eternal God and Jesus the incarnate Son we destroy the truth.

The Bible states that In the beginning was The Word and The Word was with God and The Word was God.
What part is it people cannot understand? Its amazing!

God Bless,
Will

The problem with the word "beginning" is that it implies God had a beginning. But when studied in the context of God it becomes clear that the word "beginning" implies the eternal nature of God.

John
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Since God has no beginning Jesus has no beginning. There is no reason to assume this text only refers to the creation of this planet.

Revelation
3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Again, since Jesus inhabits eternity He has been the first born of God's creation since eternity past.

Revelation
22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Since there is no end of God there is no beginning either.

Hebrews
7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Here Melchisedec is compared with Jesus - having neither beginning of days and no end of life.

Colossians
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus is the firstborn of every creature because He inhabits eternity.

Colossians
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Jesus is preeminently the firstborn from the dead because inhabits eternity.

Revelation
1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Jesus is the first begotten of the dead in the same way He was slain from the foundation of the earth - because He inhabits eternity.

Amen Mike! It is necessary for every Christian to read the full context and pray that God give them the Holy Spirit to instruct them and guide them in understanding God's word.
I agree with your explanation.

God Bless,
Will

Mike you did not explain your apparent contradiction. Your statement that whatever has been or will be is always true of Jesus from eternity past to eternity future, and your statement that if we do not make a distinction between Jesus the eternal God and Jesus the incarnate Son we destroy the truth.

What is the distinction?
Why does it destroy truth?
What truth does it destroy?
What do you mean by 'he inhabits eternity'?

Shalom

Jesus has been God from eternity past. But He did not become the Son of God until His incarnation 2,000 years ago. But the title or designation has been legitimate since eternity past based on the fact Jesus inhabits eternity (which means time as we know it does not apply to God in the same way it applies to us).

Eternity past and future are always now for the Godhead. This does not necessarily mean God does not relate to us chronologically according to our finite time and space continuum. But in ways that only apply to God (in ways we cannot completely fathom) Jesus inhabits eternity.

There are texts which apply to Jesus the incarnate Son of God and texts which apply to Jesus the eternal God. The complexity of Jesus' divine and human constitution make it needful to describe them separately. Which is also true of the Godhead in general, that is, it is necessary to describe them independently even though they work together collectively.

Insisting the texts which describe Jesus as the Son of God also apply to Jesus the eternal God destroys the truth about both. Why? Because Jesus the Son of God had a beginning whereas Jesus the eternal God has no beginning. Just because Jesus' ability to inhabit eternity makes it possible for Him to use the title Son of God from eternity past doesn't mean He isn't eternal in the same exact way God the Father is eternal.

And yet for all the posts, no one can really address these texts:

“13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. 15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.” Col 1


“22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, 31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.” Pro 8


Proverbs 8 clearly is referring to Jesus and that he was clearly created. This clearly states that Jesus was created first and then he created the earth and mankind.

Lobo,
You are dead wrong.. Ihave adressed this stuff many many times before with scripture o nanother forum with an Arian which means denying the divintiy of Christ.
To me its not an issue, but your tactics of 'Look see no one can prove me wrong!' approach is found lacking. I am burnt out on providing textx in black and white to people who can care less, but here is a hint..use a concordance and figure it out.

God Bless,
Will