I must say that I find Lobo's take on the covenants to be inconsistent with what the Bible actually says about them.

Lobo said:

"the covenant with Abraham involved 'many nations' (Gen 17:5). In contrast, the Mosaic covenant involved and was between God and Israel only (Ex 31:12-18). "

He also draws lines between Abraham and Isaac where God's covenant promises are concerned. These are distinctions the Bible doesn't make.

The covenant God made with Abraham was the same one He made with Isaac and with Jacob: "And God heard their groaning, and God remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob." Exodus 2:24. This was actually the same covenant God made with Adam in Genesis 3:15, that was fulfilled in Christ.

While the Mosaic covenant was originally made with the Israelites, its purpose was to bring in other peoples from other lands as well; it wasn't only to be with the children of Israel exclusively forever. The nation of Israel was to be a lamp unto the world, to show other nations God's will, that people of other nations might be saved. That they failed to do this was one of the human failings of the Old Covenant. That covenant was based too much on humans relying on their own strength: "And Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the Lord hath said will we do." Exodus 24:3. "We will do." Not, "With God's help we will do", or "We will allow God to work through us."

That the covenant with Israel was not to be exclusive can be seen in many Bible passages:

"For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob." Isaiah 14:1.

"Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant; Even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon Mine altar; for Mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." Isaiah 56:6,7.

Also the distinctions Lobo makes between the promises that come through Abraham and Isaac are artificial, not Bible-based. The same promises that are to be realized through Abraham are to be realized through Isaac too: "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:16. Christ came through the lineage of Isaac. So the promises to be realized through Abraham, which were to be fulfilled in Christ, were the same as the promises to be realized through Isaac, since Jesus was descended from Isaac too. It's all the same.

Lobo says, "This is why it is technically incorrect to say that we are 'spiritual Israel'. The reason would be that Israel started from Isaac, not Abraham."

I would have to disagree. This is an artificial distinction, as noted above. The whole thing boils down to Christ, who was descended from both Abraham and Isaac, so it makes no difference. As Jesus said, "Salvation is of the Jews." John 4:22. Gentiles who are saved are "graffed in" (Romans 11:17,19,23,24); all are saved by grace through faith.

But it is entirely proper to call a Christian a "spiritual Jew". Paul says so in no uncertain terms:

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2:28,29.

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." Philippians 3:3.

Three good works dealing with this subject are Pastor Steve Wohlberg's "Exploding the Israel Deception", excerpted at

http://www.endtimeinsights.com/IsraelinProphecy.html ;


"Spiritual Israel" by Pastors Doug Batchelor & Steve Wohlberg, at

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=1152 ;


and the late Pastor Joe Crews' "Why the Old Covenant Failed", at

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=651

I agree with Pastors Crews, Batchelor and Wohlberg on the role of covenants, Israel, Gentiles and the Remnant Church. It is clear to me that God originally chose the Jews to share the everlasting gospel with everyone everywhere. But in AD 34 Jesus commissioned the Christian Church to fulfill the gospel mission. Jews and Gentiles alike are welcome to be baptized into the Church and spread the gospel according to their special gifts and talents. All the partially fulfilled and unfulfilled restoration promises and prophecies will eventually be fulfilled by the Church - in principle (many of the details do not apply, such as specific people and places and times).

"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." -- Romans 9: 6-8

It is not the fleshly lineage that qualifies someone as an Israelite -- whether that lineage is from Abraham, or Isaac (Which, if it is from Isaac, why did the 12 tribes not come directly from him?), or Jacob. What was the ground for the promise/covenant that God made with Abraham? It was based on Abraham's faith. Therefore, the lineage also must be based on faith. God was using the physical (literal nation of Israel) to illustrate the spiritual (those who live by faith).

Why Isaac and not Ishmael? Ishmael was conceived when Abraham, rather than putting his faith in God and doing things God's way, let his faith falter and took matters into his own hand. Ishmael was the product of a works based program and therefore could not be the child of promise. Isaac, on the other hand, was the product of faith. It was impossible by human effort alone to conceive him. Even though Abraham and Sarah had a work to do in procreation, their work could only be fruitbearing if combined with the miracle working power of God to bring life from those who were reproductively dead. By faith Abraham had to give God room to work through them. This they did not do when Ishmael was born.

Those who are of faith, as was Isaac, are Israel because they are born out of the same principle as was Isaac -- total dependence upon God. Did that mean that Abraham and Sarah didn't have to get intimate? Absolutely not. They had to do their part or God never would have had the opportunity to do His. Just like James says, "Faith without works is dead."

Dave

Amen to that Dave. The Bible interprets itself.

God Bless,
Will

But what about mother Mary? She didn't have to get intimate in order to conceive our Saviour. Just how miraculous does a birth of a child have to be to fulfill the promises? Thus, isn't faith based on the conditions of the promise? and complying precisely with them? Sarah through intercourse and Mary through virgin conception!

And what about Jewish geneology? Jesus had to be born of the line of Judah and David to fulfill the messianic prophecies, right? That was part of the conditions of the covenant. Jesus' lineage, however, is not pure bred. So, how diluted can our heritage be and still be considered Jewish?

My point is - whether or not Jewish ancestry is required of God is based on the terms and conditions of the most current and applicable covenant promises. The new covenant replaced the old covenant at a certain point in time, right? When and why? And what are the geneological terms of the new covenant? If we can answer these type of questions concerning the new covenant we should be able to arrive at sound conclusions and make intelligent choices.

What thinkest thou?

I'd say the conditions of the promise are based on faith. It's not about how miraculous something is, it's about whether it was done through faith.

The point that Jesus' lineage is not pure bread is very important. It shows again that the promise is not based on fleshly lineage. The promise was fulfilled through fleshly lineage, however. God's promises are very tangible. By fulfilling the promise by faith through the flesh (or in the flesh) God revealed that He was the one who was guiding the affairs according to His purposes. No heathen nation ever could have known who would wind up ruling them in the end. Through faith, the Jews had that knowledge. Unfortunately, they lost their faith and didn't realize it when their King had come.

I would say that the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant in that it is the culmination of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was a type, although very real, of the New Covenant. Just like the sacrifices pointed to the ultimate sacrifice.

Dave

I forgot to mention,

Read again Isaiah 56: 7. If the old covenant was based on the fleshly lineage of a person as a Jew, how could the stranger have taken hold of it?

Right. Faith not flesh (ancestry) is what enables born again believers to receive the rewards (i.e., salvation, victory over sin and eternal life with Jesus in the new earth) associated with the new covenant. Yes, God used the nation of Israel to protect and preserve the new covenant promises but they apply to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. When the nation of Israel rejected Jesus God chose the Christian Church to complete the gospel commission. The Remnant Church is presently the guardians of the new covenant promises.

Revelation
14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Amen! Just like Paul says: "For we are the circumcision, which worsip God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and hae no confidence in the flesh" (Philipians 3: 3). Who are the real Jews? Those who worship God in the spirit (See also John 4: 23).

Dave

Like CD Brooks once said:

"Jesus was a Jew; and if you wanna go to heaven; you gonna be a Jew too."