As far as I know, this is unique to the SDA Church, therefore, I thought it would be good to discuss this here.

What then is the truth about "The Investigative Judgment"?

What does the Bible, the writings of EGW, and the writings of any of our theologians have to say about this teaching?

For those who may not know, perhaps we should first determine what "The Investigative Judgment" is, therefore, what is "The Investigative Judgment"?

I love the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment!!! I have a fairly long essay on it that I've used on other forum (and developed over the years) that I keep challanging the critics to answer, but for some reason they tend to be quite. The seem to only like their strawmen to put up and knock down.

As for me, in studying what Mrs. White claims to be the most inportant in her writings, the issues of the Great Controversy, which leads into what (or rather Who) Hell fire actually is, finds the consept of the Investigative Judgment to be requesit. They all go together.

I'll post my essay in sections, but may I recommend that if you (please check with your church libarary, or even your own city libarary with interlibarary loan) get the book "The Sanctuary and the Atonement" by the Biblical Research Committee (get the original yellow covered one from 1981, NOT the blue re-issue) You will find three chapters, "The Mighty opposits: The Atonement in the Writings of Ellen G. White" parts 1 and 2 and "We Must All Appear: The Investigative Judgment in the writings of Ellen G. White" These chapters are outstanding in our study of this topic.

Kevin, would you be willing to post your study on the Forum Study Library? And then we could discuss it here in more detail. Here's the link:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=73&DaysPrune=1000&submit=Go

OK, I'll try to get to it when I get a break. But please, let me emphesise that my essay is supplementary material, and that we still need to look at what others wrote, expecially those three chapters in Sanctuary and the Atonement by the Biblical Research committee.


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It's posted, I hope you find it useful!

[ November 28, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Kevin H ]

I did get that impression about this section, but thank you Daryl for making sure.

I've posted my essay on the investigative judgment, please read it and return here with any comments. I hope it helps.

Kevin, I read your rather long, and sometimes rambling post, and here is my initial response to it. BTW, thank you for taking the time to study this doctrine.

“It is finished” meant that Jesus had just drained the last drop in the cup of trembling. I’m not so sure it meant anything else, or that it implied one or more cycles had just been completed.

Citing other possible fulfillments of Daniel 1-8, based on various cycles, overlooks God’s foreknowledge. Suggesting that these prophecies were flexible enough to accommodate earlier fulfillments implies God used a shotgun approach, that He wasn’t sure when things would actually happen. The idea that the 2300 day prophecy could have been fulfilled earlier undermines the fulfillment of the prophecy itself.

Whether or not Daniel should be studied in the context of Medo-Persia or Antiochus, or some other era, is mostly a waste of time, since we already know the truth about Daniel 9-12. What could have been, or what should have been, is all well and fine, but the fact remains, a fact that we cannot overlook, Jesus fulfilled parts of chapter 9 between 27-31 AD. The dates we use for the prophecies of Daniel were confirmed and verified by God through the SOP. We have no legitimate reason to doubt them.

The idea that God is angry and vengeful and is looking for excuses to kill us and to keep us out of heaven is a lie that hasn’t been believed by SDAs in years, if ever. I know I’ve never felt that way about God, and I’ve never met anyone who has or does. To build a doctrine to overcome this idea seems unnecessary to me, and somewhat contrived. The real motive seems to serve a convenient purpose, namely, to say sin and sinners destroy themselves in a lake of fire.

During judgment, God investigates our good and bad thoughts, words and deeds, and then a decree is declared based on whether or not our characters withstood the test and scrutiny of God. It was a time of soul affliction. Indeed, it was a fearful time. “The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” Heb 10:30, 31. In Christ, however, we may come boldly before the throne of God, knowing our heavenly Father will in no wise turn away those who are contrite and converted.

Hebrews
4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Leviticus
16:29 And [this] shall be a statute for ever unto you: [that] in the seventh month, on the tenth [day] of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, [whether it be] one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
23:29 For whatsoever soul [it be] that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.
23:30 And whatsoever soul [it be] that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

Kevin, when I compare what you wrote about the investigative judgment and what Sister White wrote about it, I have two entirely different reactions. After reading what you wrote, I still don’t know what you believe about the investigative judgment. Can you spell it out in one or two short paragraphs?

Hi Mike:

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It is finished” meant that Jesus had just drained the last drop in the cup of trembling. I’m not so sure it meant anything else, or that it implied one or more cycles had just been completed.
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This is dealing with how the critics point to the phrase "It is Finished" to mean that nothing else can happen. I was pointing out that they are using Greek thinking, and that we need to remember the cultural contexts. That phrase would mean one thing if said in say Athans, but can mean something else when said in Jerusalem. Therefore the critics can not force it to mean "That's all folks"

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Citing other possible fulfillments of Daniel 1-8, based on various cycles, overlooks God’s foreknowledge...
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NO IT DOESN'T!!!!!

Have you ever read the chapters "Distroyed for lack of knowlege" in Prophets and Kings, and "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy" in the SDA Bible Commentary? Their what could have happened does not overlook God's foreknowlege.

In my Bible classes at Atlantic Union College the professors were very strict about a three step approach to scripture:

1. What did it mean to the original audience (studing language, culture etc.) including appling the principles of "Distroyed for lack of Knowlege" on the microapplication to the text. How was God offering THEM the chance to either be the last generation, or prepare for the next generation to be the last generation.

2. Since God indeed has foreknowlege, God sees how and when things will actually be worked out, so God gives current events to the generations who he gives the opputunity to but who he knows will not fulfill it, where we will find to same principles and similar events, and in cycles to what the ACTUAL Final generation and the FINAL cycle. As we see what could have happened, we can properly apply the text and prophecys to our day.

(The third way is just using the language for drawing spiritual lessons but not based on the exegesis, for example when Mrs. White took David's prayer of Mt. Gilboa and applys it to the Adventist teaching of the Law while neglecting the righteousness of Christ.)

Anyway, for God to give the earlier cycles the lessons that we will need to know later, shows a oneness of the opposits of God's foreknowlege and Freedom of Choice. We don't have to choose one or the other.


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The idea that God is angry and vengeful and is looking for excuses to kill us and to keep us out of heaven is a lie that hasn’t been believed by SDAs in years
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I'm not catching where I'm suppose to be saying that. I used some exageration in the idea of God doing two different acts at the end, but I am afraid that you are reading in much more than I meant.

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After reading what you wrote, I still don’t know what you believe about the investigative judgment. Can you spell it out in one or two short paragraphs?
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1. Although we are the only church that "teaches" a doctrine called "The Investigative Judgment" we find that other respectable scholars from a wide range of study all believe and teach aspects that if we were to make a composit of THEIR beliefs, we would indeed have our Investigative Judgment. So if we are to give up the doctrine of the investigative judgment, which scholor's work shall we throw out, and why did he do such a poor job? The critics don't deal with this.

a) There are scholars, such as Henri Frankfort, who point out that the ancient world indeed had the day-year principle, and explains how they saw it working.

b) We have evidence that Daniel 8:14 indeed means 2300 days not 1150 days.

c) The ancient world believed in "Investigative Judgments"

d) Frank Moore Cross among others give extreamly strong support, especially from the Elephantine and Samaritan Papri that give 457 BC as the starting date.

All these points are out there among scholars. Which one are we not going to believe if we are going to do away with the Investigative Judgment? To me the critics appear like Achen, the evidence comes closer and closer and they still act in denial.

(The arguments against the investigative judgment is like saying "There is no such thing as a bicycle, but there are wheels, frames, chains, gears and pedels, but give up the idea of there ever being a bicycle)

2. God is not dead, nor passive. In the Bible, when ever God does something special, it is called a kipper. When we look at the changes in the world over the past century and a half, how can you call it business as usual? If it looks like a kipper has been occuring, then why argue against a kipper occuring.

3. You are not suposed to get the same feeling from my writing as you get from Mrs. White. You can read Mrs. White or the wonderful studies in her writings, such as those found in the three chapters in Sanctuary and the Atonement. My paper is to do no more than point out that there is pleanty of evidence outside the church that can make us rest assured that we are on the right track here. As I said, my essay is only supplemtal information.

Kevin, maybe it's just me, or whatever, but I don't have a problem accepting what Sister White and the pioneers wrote about the IJ. The additional information you have provided, while interesting, did not contribute significantly to my understanding of the purpose and function of the IJ. Perhaps that's not what you intended, therefore, I am left wondering - Why did I take time to read it? Please, don't be offended. I'm just giving you honest feedback - for what it's worth.

Kevin, after praying about this thread this morning something occurred to me that reminded me of two other threads (linked below), the “cycles” idea you presented definitely applies to certain prophecies. It’s referred to as – dual application. It appears that God gave prophecies which contain two fulfillments, historical and future. Tell me what you think. I need to pray and study more about what you wrote regarding the IJ and other possible, earlier fulfillments.

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=82;t=000021

http://www.maritime-sda-online.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=57;t=000050

(Note: As a result of both a major upgrade and move, the above links no longer work. - Daryl)