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Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47303
02/07/05 03:30 PM
02/07/05 03:30 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
quote:
Originally posted by <Cedric>:
False prophets can give true predictions (Balam) and true prophets can fall into error (Jonah). But prophecy from God will come to pass.

Let us now see whether or not the prophets of God of the Bible meets the tests of a true prophet of God.

Cedric, said that Balaam is a false prophet of God, and that Jonah is a true prophet of God, therefore, let us now examine these two people, beginning with Balaam, to see if Cedric is correct or incorrect in his statement.

Now what about Balaam, was Balaam really a true or a false prophet of God?

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47304
02/09/05 06:09 PM
02/09/05 06:09 PM
John H.  Offline
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Posts: 2,150
North Carolina, USA
Balaam is a curious case. He was a true prophet of God for a season, but apostatized. EGW compared him to Judas:
"The fate of Balaam was similar to that of Judas, and their characters bear a marked resemblance to each other. Both these men tried to unite the service of God and mammon, and met with signal failure. Balaam acknowledged the true God, and professed to serve Him; Judas believed in Jesus as the Messiah, and united with His followers. But Balaam hoped to make the service of Jehovah the steppingstone to the acquirement of riches and worldly honor; and failing in this he stumbled and fell and was broken. Judas expected by his connection with Christ to secure wealth and promotion in that worldly kingdom which, as he believed, the Messiah was about to set up. The failure of his hopes drove him to apostasy and ruin. Both Balaam and Judas had received great light and enjoyed special privileges, but a single cherished sin poisoned the entire character and caused their destruction."
{PP 452.1}

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47305
02/09/05 07:43 PM
02/09/05 07:43 PM
Daryl  Offline
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But did Balaam also ever become a false prophet?

Did Balaam ever go against God in his function as God's prophet?

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47306
02/09/05 09:18 PM
02/09/05 09:18 PM
John H.  Offline
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North Carolina, USA
Balaam, before his dealings with Barak, was a true prophet of God.
"Balaam was once a good man and a prophet of God; but he had apostatized, and had given up to covetousness; yet he still professed to be a servant of the Most High."
{PP 439.2}
We don't actually have any recorded prophecies of Balaam's which are false. But he definitely warred against God. The fact that he went with the emissaries of Balak, when they came to him the second time, shows Balaam's rebellious spirit. God had already told him that any errand for the purpose of cursing Israel was fruitless. But still Balaam persisted in wanting to go, for the earthly reward offered to him. So God let him go, but only with the stipulation that Balaam would say only the words God gave him.

Even while Balaam was blessing Israel, he was in rebellion inwardly:
"Balaam confessed that he came with the purpose of cursing Israel, but the words he uttered were directly contrary to the sentiments of his heart. He was constrained to pronounce blessings, while his soul was filled with curses."
{PP 447.1}
Yet he did utter messages given him by the Lord, so he was being God's true mouthpiece even as he was rebellious in his heart. That's why he's a curious case.

He later was intimately involved in setting up the children of Israel to fall into apostasy at Peor:
"At Balaam's suggestion, a grand festival in honor of their gods was appointed by the king of Moab, and it was secretly arranged that Balaam should induce the Israelites to attend. He was regarded by them as a prophet of God, and hence had little difficulty in accomplishing his purpose. Great numbers of the people joined him in witnessing the festivities. They ventured upon the forbidden ground, and were entangled in the snare of Satan. Beguiled with music and dancing, and allured by the beauty of heathen vestals, they cast off their fealty to Jehovah. As they united in mirth and feasting, indulgence in wine beclouded their senses and broke down the barriers of self-control. Passion had full sway; and having defiled their consciences by lewdness, they were persuaded to bow down to idols. They offered sacrifice upon heathen altars and participated in the most degrading rites."
{PP 454.3}
See also Numbers 31:16 --
"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord."
Balaam was eventually slain by the Israelites in their battle against the Midianites. Numbers 31:8.

Peter wrote that Balaam "loved the wages of unrighteousness." 2 Peter 2:15.

And Jesus said, "Balaam...taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." Revelation 2:14.

Yet, for a while, he was a true prophet of God. But he fell from that status due to his behavior.

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47307
02/09/05 10:08 PM
02/09/05 10:08 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Interesting stuff about Balaam.

Are there any other prophets who similarly went the way of Balaam, or is Balaam the only recorded example of these type of prophets?

I just thought about King Saul. And what about King Saul, didn't he make prophetic utterances himself?

Here is the answer to my question:
1 Samuel 10:10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.
11
And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
Saul was also then another prophet who also went astray?

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47308
02/10/05 04:52 AM
02/10/05 04:52 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Balaam was actually a pagan seer and soothsayer, and not a prophet of God at all, although he probably had a knowledge of the God of Israel. (As such I'm not sure we can correctly call him a "false" prophet.) He was never, nor claimed to be, a prophet of God.

And, since this thread has been established to discuss the claims of the SDA church re: the authenticity of EGW, it behoves the participants to refrain from quoting her to establish a point. (The arguement goes like this: since we are discussing the claims of EGW regarding her alleged prophetic gift, any quotes from her will not be seen as valid, since I reject the warrant that she is a true prophet. This is the point we are trying to establish.)

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47309
02/10/05 06:41 PM
02/10/05 06:41 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
We can accept any information about Balaam or whoever from EGW as information, as well as from any other acceptable source, whether or not it has yet been discussed and determined whether or not she passed the tests of a true prophet of God.

As far as Balaam goes, how does the Bible refer to him as? In the following verse Balaam is referred to as a soothsayer:

Joshua 13:22 Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay with the sword among them that were slain by them.
What does soothsayer mean here?

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47310
02/10/05 08:07 PM
02/10/05 08:07 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Soothsayer is used in Joshua 13:22 as one who uses divination.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47311
02/10/05 08:49 PM
02/10/05 08:49 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

"Soothsayer" is defined as one who foretells events. It is a compound word composed of "sooth" and "sayer". We know what "sayer" is. "Sooth" is an archaic form of "truth", so "soothsayer" is literally "truthsayer".

Re: Does Ellen G White Pass the Test of a True Prophet of God? #47312
02/10/05 09:31 PM
02/10/05 09:31 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
So Balaam was a truthsayer, hardly, the qualification of a false prophet.

The SDA Bible Commentary says this about Joshua 13:22 as quoted below:

22. The soothsayer. Balaam was a one time a prophet of God, but sold himself for reward and honor, and degraded his position as a prophet until he became known as a soothsayer. After returning home from his unsuccessful attempt to curse the camp of Israel, Balaam decided to resort to other means to obtain the reward offered by Balak. Returning to the land of Moab, he persuaded the Moabites to entice the children of Israel into idolatry and immorality. The plan was successful. For thus opposing God’s people Balaam shared the fate of God’s enemies in the destruction that fell upon the Midianites (Num. 25:16–18).
The comments here seems to give a lower position of a soothsayer to that of a prophet.

This is also how the SDA Bible Dictionary defines a soothsayer:

Soothsayer. One claiming to possess the special gift of accurately determining the destiny and predicting the future of individuals and nations. By recourse to various occult arts they made their computations, divinations, and subtle prognostications.
In the OT “soothsayer” is the translation of: (1) a form of the Aramaic gezar (Dan 2:27; 4:7; 5:7, 11, KJV), “to decide (destiny),” “to determine (destiny),” hence “astrologers”; (2) a form of the Heb. Ôanan (Deut 18:10, 14, RSV; Is 2:6; Mic 5:12), “to make appear,” “to raise spirits,” “to practice soothsaying”; (3) a form of the Heb. qasam (Jos 13:22), “to practice divination.”
In the NT the form “soothsaying” is found in Acts 16:16 as a translation of the Gr. manteuomai, “to divine,” “to practice soothsaying.” This term consistently appears in the LXX to describe the work of a lying prophet (Deut 18:10; 1 Sa 28:8; Eze 13:6), and is to be understood in this sense in Acts 16:16. The careful avoidance of manteuomai, “to divine,” and the frequent use of propheµteuoµ, “to prophesy,” by the NT writers in describing the work of God’s representatives is significant.
So we now have two contrasting definitions?

Which is the correct definition?

One thing we do know from the Bible is that Balaam couldn't and didn't curse Israel, and that God did in fact communicate with Balaam and told Balaam what he could say. That would agree with the truthsayer definition.

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