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Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47483
10/20/05 01:58 AM
10/20/05 01:58 AM
R
Rob  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:

If we can't use the Scriptures, then, unless you know of another authority beyond the Scriptures, what can we use?

This is a very good question, and is the question I am asking.

Methinks this is perhaps a question that has no answer. One takes ones beliefs on faith. Period.

To ask the question "Is the whole Bible the inspired Word of God?" we must make several assumptions:

1. There is a God.
2. This God communicates with humanity.
3. This God has communicated with humanity in the Bible.
4. We know all this because the Bible told us.
5. We know the Bible is true because God gave it to us.
6. Return to #1

Personally, I believe that the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, including the Old Testament and New Testament, are the word of God communicating His will and character to humanity. I do not think, however, that this can be "proved" in the usual sense of the word.

The proof of Scripture is not in whether or not one text proves another, but in the prophecies it outlines. In this way we can go outside Scripture to verify what Scripture says. We can then go back into Scripture and see that God says

"I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me.
I make known the end from the beginning,
From ancient times, what is still to come.

Isaiah 46:9, 10

Thereby, by external evidence we can see that Scripture is inspired.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47484
10/20/05 02:13 AM
10/20/05 02:13 AM
R
Rob  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man:
An inspired commentator is necessary to correctly understand the Bible.

MM, in light of John 16:13, I must completely disagree with this assertion. According to this verse, we need the Spirit of truth to correctly understand the Bible, not an inspired commentator.

If the NT is an inspired commentator on the OT, what is an inspired commentator on the NT?

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47485
10/21/05 02:19 AM
10/21/05 02:19 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Daryl, you're right. That's my point.

Rob, the Holy Spirit works through inspired commentators to lead us into all truth. The entire Bible was written by inspired human beings. When we read the NT we are reading an inspired commentary. When we read the SOP we are reading an inspired commentary on things in the entire Bible, and things not in the Bible. Without these sources of inspired guidance there would be as many religions as there are people.

No man is an island. God does not open the eyes of one person independent of other people. The Holy Spirit works through people who have been given special gifts and talents. He works through the church as a body of believers, not independent scholars.

The SDA church would not be where it is today were it not for God gifting Sister White with the correct conclusions regarding difficult Bible passages that deal with our salvation, and our unique and distinctive doctrine. Anyone who comes along and insists that she got it wrong is wrong. Period!

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47486
10/21/05 02:48 AM
10/21/05 02:48 AM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Why is it we see no Bible record of an inspired commentator on the day of Pentecost? Remember that they were all in accord with one another, that means they agreed on everything, and this is considering that there were no NT books written at that time.
God Bless,
Will

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47487
10/21/05 02:51 AM
10/21/05 02:51 AM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Before me move from the OT to the NT, are we all agreed that the OT was totally and completely inspired by God?

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47488
10/21/05 02:52 AM
10/21/05 02:52 AM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
Mike,
I would like to see some Biblical proof where God does not use the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. You say others are given special gifts endowing them with the ability to interpret the Bible for us, which means all we have to do is read it and not think about it and take it at face value, instead of studying the Word of God. I have Bible proof that tells us all otherwise. I would like to see some Bible evidence regarding your position.
Thank you.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47489
10/20/05 04:16 PM
10/20/05 04:16 PM
Daryl  Offline
OP
Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
Sticking to this part of the topic, God obviously used the Holy Spirit to inspire people in the writing of the OT Bible.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47490
10/20/05 04:26 PM
10/20/05 04:26 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
3SM 23
God is teaching, leading, and guiding His people, that they may teach, lead, and guide others. There will be, among the remnant of these last days, as there were with ancient Israel, those who wish to move independently, who are not willing to submit to the teachings of the Spirit of God, and who will not listen to advice or counsel. Let such ever bear in mind that God has a church upon the earth, to which He has delegated power. Men will want to follow their own independent judgment, despising counsel and reproof; but just as surely as they do this they will depart from the faith, and disaster and ruin of souls will follow. Those who rally now to support and build up the truth of God are ranging themselves on one side, standing united in heart, mind, and voice in defense of the truth.--Letter 104, 1894. {3SM 23.1}

It is because people did not obey the revealed will of God that He was forced to reveal it more fully through inspired and gifted leaders.

PP 364
If man had kept the law of God, as given to Adam after his fall, preserved by Noah, and observed by Abraham, there would have been no necessity for the ordinance of circumcision. And if the descendants of Abraham had kept the covenant, of which circumcision was a sign, they would never have been seduced into idolatry, nor would it have been necessary for them to suffer a life of bondage in Egypt; they would have kept God's law in mind, and there would have been no necessity for it to be proclaimed from Sinai or engraved upon the tables of stone. And had the people practiced the principles of the Ten Commandments, there would have been no need of the additional directions given to Moses. {PP 364.2}

After the Dark Ages God was forced again to gift and inspire another leader to help the “woman”, the “remnant of her seed”, understand the truths that had been lost.

3SM 38
In the early days of the message, when our numbers were few, we studied diligently to understand the meaning of many Scriptures. At times it seemed as if no explanation could be given. My mind seemed to be locked to an understanding of the Word; but when our brethren who had assembled for study came to a point where they could go no farther, and had recourse to earnest prayer, the Spirit of God would rest upon me, and I would be taken off in vision, and be instructed in regard to the relation of Scripture to Scripture. These experiences were repeated over and over again. Thus many truths of the third angel's message were established, point by point. {3SM 38.2}

3SM 30
In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue.-- Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 661. {3SM 30.2}

3SM 30
The Holy Ghost is the author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy. These are not to be twisted and turned to mean what man may want them to mean, to carry out man's ideas and sentiments, to carry forward man's schemes at all hazards.--Letter 92, 1900. {3SM 30.3}

3SM 31
The Word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind, and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the Word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the Word that they have neglected to follow. {3SM 31.1}

The Word of God abounds in general principles for the formation of correct habits of living, and the testimonies, general and personal, have been calculated to call their attention more especially to these principles.-- Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 663, 664. {3SM 31.2}

3SM 31
In the Scriptures God has set forth practical lessons to govern the life and conduct of all; but though He has given minute particulars in regard to our character, conversation, and conduct, yet in a large measure, His lessons are disregarded and ignored. Besides the instruction in His Word, the Lord has given special testimonies to His people, not as a new revelation, but that He may set before us the plain lessons of His Word, that errors may be corrected, that the right way may be pointed out, that every soul may be without excuse.-- Letter 63, 1893. (See Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 665.) {3SM 31.3}

3SM 31, 32
At that time [after the 1844 disappointment] one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of God would come upon me, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. {3SM 31.4}

As the points of our faith were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays.--Gospel Works, p. 302. {3SM 32.1}

3SM 32
I want that which is deemed worthy to appear, for the Lord has given me much light that I want the people to have; for there is instruction that the Lord has given me for His people. It is light that they should have, line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little. This is now to come before the people, because it has been given to correct specious errors and to specify what is truth. The Lord has revealed many things pointing out the truth, thus saying, "This is the way, walk ye in it."--Letter 127, 1910. {3SM 32.2}

The Bible must be your counselor. Study it and the testimonies God has given; for they never contradict His Word.--Letter 106, 1907. {3SM 32.3}

Is the Bible wholly and completely inspired? Yes! However, God saw fit, from time to time, to gift and inspire people to help us understand His revealed will. Since God is convinced that we need these inspired sources to understand His word it behooves us to take advantage of them.

Can we arrive at the truth by ourselves, setting aside the inspired sources God gave us, trusting only in the Holy Spirit to guide us? Apparently God doesn't think so. Otherwise, He would not have given us the testimony of Jesus, the spirit of prophecy, to help us!

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47491
10/20/05 05:31 PM
10/20/05 05:31 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
MM, in light of John 16:13, I must completely disagree with this assertion. According to this verse, we need the Spirit of truth to correctly understand the Bible, not an inspired commentator.

Here's another text saying the same thing:

quote:
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27)

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47492
10/20/05 05:32 PM
10/20/05 05:32 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Can we arrive at the truth by ourselves, setting aside the inspired sources God gave us, trusting only in the Holy Spirit to guide us? Apparently God doesn't think so. Otherwise, He would not have given us the testimony of Jesus, the spirit of prophecy, to help us!
One would think the same logic could be used in regards to Jones and Waggoner, since the "inspired source" said over 1,000 times that God sent them to convey a message to them. Yet we lay them aside with impunity. Interesting ...

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