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Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47503
10/23/05 10:08 PM
10/23/05 10:08 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
You are so stuck on word translation that you make an issue that Jesus and Paul would dissagree with.

Actually, Kevin, I believe God inspired the writer’s thoughts, not his choice of words. However, there are times when we are forced to cite the original languages in order to clarify a point or doctrine in the Bible. How often have you heard someone say, “This word or that word would be better translated ….” Or, have you ever heard someone say, “I prefer the way it is worded in this Bible.”

We use words to express our thoughts, but how often has someone misstated what you said? Are words important? I think so. The right words convey the right meaning, but one wrong word can chanage the entire meaning. In some cases, placing a comma before or after a certain word can mean the difference between the truth and a lie.

We must choose our words wisely. And so did the Bible writers. Paul, in particular, choose certain words on purpose, and he choose not to use certain words on purpose. He was very articulate.

John
6:63 ... the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

1SM 21
The writers of the Bible were God's penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. {1SM 21.1}

It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. {1SM 21.2}

1SM 16
Some look to us gravely and say, "Don't you think there might have been some mistake in the copyist or in the translators?" This is all probable … {1SM 16.2}

EW 74, 75
Then I saw in relation to the "daily" (Dan. 8:12) that the word "sacrifice" was supplied by man's wisdom, and does not belong to the text, and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. {EW 74.2}

GC 440
The beast was seen "coming up out of the earth;" and, according to the translators, the word here rendered "coming up" literally signifies "to grow or spring up as a plant." {GC 440.2}

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47504
10/23/05 10:17 PM
10/23/05 10:17 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
Actually, Kevin, I believe God inspired the writer’s thoughts, not his choice of words.
Both the words and the thoughts were a divine/human process. Ellen White speaks of how at times she would lack for a word, and God would help her. Also the thoughts she had were her own, not God's, which she made clear. So both the words and the thoughts involved both the human and the divine.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47505
10/24/05 04:55 AM
10/24/05 04:55 AM
R
Rob  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Canada
The notion that we need an inspired interpreter is supported neither by Scripture (as noted above) nor by SOP. Even a cursory search of the writings of EGW reveals a pronounced tendency to support personal study and personal conclusions, guided by the Holy Spirit. The following quote is representative of several I found.

"It is the first and highest duty of every rational being to learn from the Scriptures what is truth, and then to walk in the light, and encourage others to follow his example. We should day by day study the Bible diligently, weighing every thought, and comparing scripture with scripture. With divine help, we are to form our opinions for ourselves, as we are to answer for ourselves before God." {GC88 598.2}

If more evidence is need, I shall be happy to provide, but as I said, this quote is represntative of what I found, and I am surpassingly opposed to needlesly long posts.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47506
10/25/05 01:06 PM
10/25/05 01:06 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rob, you're right, of course. However, if you and I and 8 other Christians come up with 10 opposing and contradicting interpretations of a particular doctrine - who is right?

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47507
10/25/05 01:12 PM
10/25/05 01:12 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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CW - Chap. 6 - Integrity of the Message

Landmarks of Truth, Experience, and Duty.-- Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 59. (1904.) {CW 52.1}

As a people we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. We are to hold to the sure pillars of our faith. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. The lapse of time had not lessened their value.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 51. (1904.) {CW 52.2}

No line of truth that has made the Seventh-day Adventist people what they are, is to be weakened. We have the old landmarks of truth, experience, and duty, and we are to stand firmly in defense of our
53
principles, in full view of the world.--Testimonies, Vol. 6, p. 17. {CW 52.3}

Moving a Block or Stirring a Pin.--I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body. God looked upon them with approbation. I was shown three steps,--the first, second, and third angels' messages. Said my accompanying angel, "Woe to him who shall move a block or stir a pin of these messages. The true understanding of these messages is of vital importance. The destiny of souls hangs upon the manner in which they are received." I was again brought down through these messages, and saw how dearly the people of God had purchased their experience. It had been obtained through much suffering and severe conflict. God had led them along step by step, until He had placed them upon a solid, immovable platform. --Early Writings, pp. 258, 259. (1858.) {CW 53.1}

The Sanctuary a Point of Special Attack.-- In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. We want solid pillars for the building. Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. Where shall we find safety unless it be in the truths that the Lord has been giving for the last fifty years?-- Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {CW 53.2}

Satan is striving continually to bring in fanciful suppositions in regard to the sanctuary, degrading the
54
wonderful representations of God and the ministry of Christ for our salvation into something that suits the carnal mind. He removes its presiding power from the hearts of believers, and supplies its place with fantastic theories invented to make void the truths of the atonement, and destroy our confidence in the doctrines which we have held sacred since the third angel's message was first given. Thus he would rob us of our faith in the very message that has made us a separate people, and has given character and power to our work.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 17. (1905.) {CW 53.3}

I know that the sanctuary question stands in righteousness and truth, just as we have held it for so many years. It is the enemy that leads minds off on sidetracks. He is pleased when those who know the truth become engrossed in collecting scriptures to pile around erroneous theories, which have no foundation in truth. The scriptures thus used are misapplied; they were not given to substantiate error, but to strengthen truth.--Gospel Workers, p. 303. (1915.) {CW 54.1}

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47508
10/25/05 07:09 PM
10/25/05 07:09 PM
Daryl  Offline
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Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,132
Nova Scotia, Canada
But erroneous interpretations doesn't determine whether or not the whole Bible was totally inspired by God.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47509
10/26/05 02:03 AM
10/26/05 02:03 AM
R
Rob  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain Man:
Rob, you're right, of course. However, if you and I and 8 other Christians come up with 10 opposing and contradicting interpretations of a particular doctrine - who is right?

A very good question, MM, and in partial response I would point you to the book "Who's Got the Truth" by Martin (I believe) and published by one of the church's publishing houses. In this book the author examines the nature of Christ as presented by several of the leading scholars of Adventism, including Maxwell, Sequira, and a few others I cannot at the moment recall. (I read the book a few years ago*). None of these learned men agreed completely on the topic. All had variations in their understanding. Which brings me to my second point.

Although it is possible for "you and I and 8 other Christians [to] come up with 10 opposing and contradicting interpretations of a particular doctrine", the more likely outcome is that on most of the major points we would all be very close, and any theological descrepancies would be largely in the minor details.

*P.S. I will look around and try to find the above mentioned book and post a biblio for any interested parties.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47510
10/27/05 02:40 AM
10/27/05 02:40 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
But erroneous interpretations doesn't determine whether or not the whole Bible was totally inspired by God.

Correct, Daryl. But the examples I posted above are translation errors. Perhaps we should reword your question? How about - Are the English translation of the original manuscripts totally inspired and infallible?

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47511
10/27/05 02:56 AM
10/27/05 02:56 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rob, I, too, have a copy of Martin Weber book. The answer to the question, Who's Got the Truth is very obvious - Walter Martin. At least that's what I got out of the book. It's interesting to me that immediately after he wrote the book he faded out of the lime light.

I called and spoke to Pastor Weber after I read his book. He was living in California at the time. He told me that PPA refused to publish his book, and he was strongly encouraged not to write it. All the other normal sources refused to publish it too. So, he finally got Calvary Connections to publish it.

Re: Is The Bible Totally Inspired By God? #47512
10/30/05 03:32 AM
10/30/05 03:32 AM
R
Rob  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 56
Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
But erroneous interpretations doesn't determine whether or not the whole Bible was totally inspired by God.

To get back to the topic at hand, I do not believe that the inspiration of the Bible can be "proved". I think it is a matter of belief; you either believe or you don't. We can point to "evidence" of God's working or prophecy or any number of other indicators, but nothing "proves" Scripture in the empirical, Western sense of the word.

As far as erroneous interpretations go, in my opinion if God was (or is) able to protect his word through milenia of persecution, etc. etc. he is surely able to protect it from erroneous interpretations. Otherwise he's not protecting his word now, is he. The whole concept of "erroneous interpretations" assumes that we know what the "true" interpretations are. That sets us up as the authorities or interpreters of Scripture, and anything that does not agree with our theology is an "erroneous interpretation."

Given the fact that the Scriptures were compiled over several thousand years, written in languages nobody speaks anymore, in a culture (or several) long dead, and translated into languages and cultures shaped and twisted by 2000 years of religious thought, tradition, customs and cultures, "erroneous interpretations" are the least of our worries. In fact, we are not even in a position to comment of "erroneous interpretations" or know what they are. (And let's not turn this into a discussion on Ellen White and the Spirit of Prophecy.)

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