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Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
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An Enemy Caused This
#47811
01/17/06 12:27 AM
01/17/06 12:27 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
"Not one noxious plant was placed in the Lord's great garden, but after Adam and Eve sinned, poisonous herbs sprang up. In the parable of the sower the question was asked the Master, "Didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? how then hath it tares?" The Master answered, "An enemy hath done this." All tares are sown by the evil one. Every noxious herb is of his sowing, and by his ingenious methods of amalgamation he has corrupted the earth with tares (MS 65, 1899) [published in F. D. Nichol, Ellen G. White and Her Critics]. {1BC 1086.2}
How far-reaching is this principle? Does it only apply to noxious herbs?
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47812
01/17/06 03:06 AM
01/17/06 03:06 AM
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Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
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What determines a weed noxious or not?
God Bless,
Will
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47813
01/17/06 04:36 AM
01/17/06 04:36 AM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47814
01/17/06 05:46 AM
01/17/06 05:46 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Poisonous to humans or poisonous to any animal aswell (cocoa)? Poisonous to all humans or only to some humans (wheat, nuts)? What about the plants who bring medication in just the right amounts while bringing sure death in to large amounts? And what about flowering plants such as orchideae who look quite good but most likely are indigestible? Also if these plants that are poisonous to humans where to be killed, they would likely take groups of insects and birds and maybe mamals with them into extinction. So what really is an obnoxious plant?
/Thomas
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47815
01/17/06 01:41 PM
01/17/06 01:41 PM
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Thomas there you go, asking unanswerable questions ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif) I've always heard that the definition of a weed is a plant that grows where you don't want it to, like volunteer corn in a wheat field. A noxious weed is another story, maybe it's something that would cause sickness when eaten by anything. Of course there are plants that are not poisonous that man makes poisonous, like grapes being made into wine. And then like Thomas points out there are poisonous plants that we make good drugs out of. Then there are poppy plants that can be used to make both good and bad drugs. But what Mrs. White must have been talking about was any plant that is somehow harmful or undesirous where it is, either because it is poisonous or because it's not where we wish it to be, like tares in crops. Can tares be a reference to humans as well? Of course. There are many of us that are like noxious weeds, we are where we should not be, or we poison the church and people in general. Are we wheat or tares? Maybe this is a question we should ask ourselves everyday. Are we a positive influence to the world or a negative one. The age old conflict between good and evil, God and Satan, right within our hearts. Redfog
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47816
01/17/06 01:43 PM
01/17/06 01:43 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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When sin came into the world, things changed. There were changes in the plant kingdom, and among humans as well. To take wheat as an example, it could be some flaw in wheat that causes a problem for humans, or some problem in humans, or some combination. It really doesn't matter as far as the question I'm asking is concerned.
The principle brought out by the Spirit of Prophecy is that God did not create the noxious herbs, but an enemy did this. That is, Satan instigated changes to the plant kingdom designed to do bad things: to cause suffering, sickness and death.
Does this principle extend to other areas? Say, the animal kingdom, for example.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47817
01/17/06 04:33 PM
01/17/06 04:33 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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I believe Satan caused all of the sinful changes that have occurred in our world - plants and animals and diseases. He is constantly tweaking the forces of nature to distort things. However, he isn't at liberty to do whatever he pleases. God is in control. He cannot break the rules God has outlined, that is, he cannot go beyond the boundaries of God's plan.
Yes, God's plan includes the good, the bad, and the ugly. The torture and death of Jesus is evidence that God's plan includes things that, on the surface, seem bad and ugly. But the fact is - the life and death of Jesus is a wonderful thing, it demonstrates the love of God like nothing else can. The same is true of all the seemingly "bad and ugly" things that God has caused Himself or has permitted the Devil to cause.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47818
01/17/06 04:45 PM
01/17/06 04:45 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Most likely it is a change in humans that caused weeds, after all, it is only a human that would call sweet corn a weed simply for growing in a barley field. The substance in wheat that causes intestine problems in some people is used by others to prepear delicious food. A plant that can cause almost instant death in some people is one that is the main ingredient in what I heard is one of Americas favourite foods. A nut alergic could die in an hour or less by eating even trace amounts of peanuts, which of course is the main ingredient in peanut butter.
I think Redfog is right saying that the parable refers to humans.
/Thomas
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47819
01/17/06 05:18 PM
01/17/06 05:18 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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So far, only MM is addressing the issues I had in mind. However, any comments or discussions are good. I like the application to people. Surely this is primarily what Jesus had in mind in saying the parable. quote:
I believe Satan caused all of the sinful changes that have occurred in our world - plants and animals and diseases. He is constantly tweaking the forces of nature to distort things.
I agree. I cannot think of any evil that is not traceable to him.
quote:
However, he isn't at liberty to do whatever he pleases. God is in control. He cannot break the rules God has outlined, that is, he cannot go beyond the boundaries of God's plan.
This is a very odd way of wording this, IMO. It implies that somehow Satan is doing what God had planned, which is of course absurd. God does not desire sickness, suffering or death; only Satan does. Satan can only do what God allows; that is true. "Allows" is the word that should be used. Definately not "plan".
quote:
Yes, God's plan includes the good, the bad, and the ugly.
No, God's plan includes only the good. God allows evil, because He created beings with free will. But "plan" means something different. "Plan" implies design, intent. God did not intend that his creatures should sin.
quote:
The torture and death of Jesus is evidence that God's plan includes things that, on the surface, seem bad and ugly.
If "includes" here means "incorporates", or "takes into account," then I agree. If it has the connotation of design or intent, then I disagree.
quote:
But the fact is - the life and death of Jesus is a wonderful thing, it demonstrates the love of God like nothing else can.
Amen!
quote:
The same is true of all the seemingly "bad and ugly" things that God has caused Himself or has permitted the Devil to cause.
I agree with this too, with the caveat that God does no bad things. By "bad" I mean things that are bad in and of themsevles, as opposed to things that would be called bad if anyone else but God had done them.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47820
01/17/06 10:21 PM
01/17/06 10:21 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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But how do you determine which things are inherently and objectively bad, ugly, noxious, evil etc? Is our view really anything but subjective as in, this hurts me, therefore it is bad, ugly, noxious.. Like the things that plauged israel when they turned from God in biblical days. Subjectively, the rain not falling, the insects eating that which managed to grow, the raiding neighbouring nations who came to steal and kill where bad, noxious and yes, evil. But objectively, didnt those things happen to catch the peoples attention?
/Thomas
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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