That proves the point. It does not come naturally with sin. It is a wage.

Ok Darius can you expand a bit on your last post?

Redfog

Redfog, the fact that the wages of sin are said to be death does not mean that sin kills. Somebody has to decide to give you those wages; they do not come automatically. Work does not give a salary, for example. If we want intelligent people to consider the claims of the God we serve we need to inject some consistency in our discussions of Him.

Well Darius if you want to play your intellectual word games then be my guest. However I know that sinning stands between me and my Creator. We are saved by that relationship with Him, pure and simple. Therefore if I sin the end result will be eternal death. Have a great Sabbath ya'll.

Redfog

Redfog, you need to be careful about your tendency to label the discussion negatively when you are unable to counter the arguments you are presented with.

God is the source and sustainer of all life forms – angel, human, animal, plants, etc. Nothing has life or lives in and of itself. Everything derives its life from God, and continues to be sustained by God thereafter. Otherwise, it would die. God does not, in other words, give something life and then send it on its way like a battery operated thing.

God must continue to give life, moment by moment, or death is the immediate result. A long lingering first death is totally unnatural. No created being is immortal. Not even in heaven. To avoid a gradual decaying death, everyone, even in heaven, must regularly eat of the fruit of the tree of life.

Whether something lives or dies depends on whether or not God gives or takes its life. Sin is not the source of death; yes, it is the reason why we die, but it is not the cause of death. We live or die based on whether or not God chooses to continue our life. The second God decides to cease sustaining our life is the second we die.

It is tempting to think, under the unnatural living conditions that presently exist, living conditions made possible by the plan of salvation, that death is the normal or natural result of sin, sickness, suffering, etc., but, in reality, we die the moment God stops giving us life.

Yes, God usually chooses to give or take life in harmony with the operation of natural laws, but not always, as miracles attest. We die a long lingering first death because God granted us probation, and because He denies us access to the tree of life. Sinning is the reason why God will not let sinners eat of the tree of life.

Remember, God possesses the power to cure and heal anything and everything that threatens to disrupt our natural flow of life, that is, the normal relationship between heart and lung, brain and blood. Consequently, whether we die of disease or destruction depends on whether or not God chooses to miraculously heal us and to maintain our bodies in a healthy state.

Of course, in most cases God does not choose to override the death and decaying process, a process that occurs because we have sinned and do not have access to eat the fruit of the tree of life, a process that would occur even in heaven, that is, if God chose not to override it. As a result, when old age reaches a certain point, God normally chooses to withdraw our life and we die immediately.

The second death is an altogether different matter.

Well Darius I wasn't trying to be negative, I just have a hard time understanding you much of the time. I feel very strongly that we spend too much time trying to intellectualize simple concepts. To me it is simple, you sin you die, unless you ask God for forgiveness. This is a concept even a child can understand. Why take something simple and make it difficult?

Redfog

If an idea is wrong there is no advantage to being simple.