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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47891
01/23/06 09:55 PM
01/23/06 09:55 PM
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Good quotes, Tom, that clearly shows that sin indeed results in death.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47892
01/23/06 11:12 PM
01/23/06 11:12 PM
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SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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Redfog, as you can see both Tom and Daryl are convinced that sin causes death.
Tom, did I do a good job of wording you position (on page 3)?
Daryl, if sin causes death, 1) why aren't you dead yet? 2) how is it that we can sin and live? 3) why does God forbid sinners to eat from the tree of life?
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47893
01/23/06 11:40 PM
01/23/06 11:40 PM
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Any way you look at it the end result of sin is death. Unless you have asked God for forgiveness.
Redfog
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47894
01/24/06 09:47 AM
01/24/06 09:47 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Redfog, the discussion was not whether sin results in death but whether sin causes death. Those who claim that it causes death have to explain why Lucifer is still alive.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47895
01/24/06 12:35 PM
01/24/06 12:35 PM
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Darius for all pratical purposes they are the same thing, as is the result. I do not believe that Satan would live forever.
Redfog
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47896
01/24/06 02:05 PM
01/24/06 02:05 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Redfog, if you insist that they are the same you are ignoring reality and there is nothing I can do about that.
Now, tell me why you think it is not possible for Satan to live forever.
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Re: An Enemy Caused This
#47897
01/24/06 02:49 PM
01/24/06 02:49 PM
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OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Tom, did I do a good job of wording you position (on page 3)?
I wouldn't say "good", but better than in the past. So the trend is in the right direction.
I think the following gives a good description as to the second death:
quote:
This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Eph. 4:18; Prov. 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them.
At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remained in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe. (DA 764)
This gives the answer to Darius' question regarding why Satan hasn't died. Had Satan and his host been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent that his death is the inevitable result of sin. That's the reason Satan is still alive. When God can allow Satan to suffer the inevitable result of sin without any confusion resulting as to the cause of his death (i.e. sin, not God killing him), then He will do so.
Regarding the other issues, the purpose of this thread is directed towards getting to the underlying causes. We see from the EGW quote of the plant kingdom, that all of the evil there is the result of sin/Satan. Can we extrapolate from this to make similar conclusions regarding the animal kingdom and natural disasters? If so, then we can conclude that there is a great deal of evil present in our world from which God must (and does) constantly protect us.
We will be confused in relation to God's character if we underestimate the sinfulness of sin. This is why Satan seeks to causes us to misunderstand the nature of sin and the controversy; to lead us to view God in a false light. That's his whole purpose.
As long as we view God falsely, we will not reproduce His character, and Christ's coming will continue to be delayed.
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