Thanks Rosangela! I knew I had read it, but couldn't think where....Have a blessed Sabbath!

FYI, I looked around, but that's the only one I've been able to find so far.

Here's something John wrote in the other thread. This might help (particularly the part I put in bold):

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The point that I was trying to express is that the nature of sin needs to be realized in the following setting:

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.


This “fear of death” which holds man in bondage is the “false sight of reality” or “false view of God”. This is the nature of sin.

This fear of death comes from viewing God in a way that is false, misrepresented, perverted. What Satan did was to represent God and his word with Satan’s own attributes of Character and thought. Thus he perverted what was a counsel into a threat.

How does fear of death hold someone in bondage to Satan?
Would it not normally cause one to be afraid of sinning?

But the word says that this “fear of death” kept us in bondage to Satan. This fear of death is the result of the false righteousness which Satan hatched using the law of God to establish that condemnation and death is from God.

By insinuating that God in His righteousness is the author of condemnation and death, Satan has duped man into believing that God is such and so prevents him from coming to God for salvation, forgiveness and grace. Thus man remains in bondage to condemnation; not being able to obtain forgiveness, mercy and grace which are freely available at the hand of God.

The “nature of sin” is a false view of God.

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Well, it guess it is my simple mind again...but this doesn't make sense to me. Maybe Arnold can understands it I'm sorry... I did find some interesting quotes though, on misrepresenting the character of God....I'll try to post them tomorrow. I'm going to "hit the hay" as they say! You all have a blessed Sabbath!

I'll write some more on it. I'm pretty sure John and see this eye to eye. Perhaps you'll find my prose a bit easier to understand. John can jump in if I say something he disagrees with.

In the garden, the counsel of God not to eat of the tree of the forbidden fruit should not be understand as an arbitrary command on God's part, but rather as sound counself from One who loved them and did not want them to suffer the misery that selfishness and distrust of God brings. By believing the lie of the serpent, they were believing the serpents characterization of God as selfish.

The serpent insinuate that God did not have their best interests at heart. God didn't want them to eat the forbidden fruit because He didn't want them to be like gods. God didn't want them to improve. God was holding them back. God could not be trusted to want what was best for them. God was selfish. This was the serpent's argument.

God was not saying, "If you eat of this tree, I will kill you" but was warning them of what the result of living for self would be. Being selfish cannot do otherwise than to lead to misery, suffering, pain, and eventually death. We all know by personal experience what a painful thing being selfish is. So God game them wise and loving counself so they could continue being happy, which was God's intention for them when He created them.

The fear of death came in as an inevitable result of their disgregard of God's counsel. Now when God came to them for their walk, they ran and hid from them. They did not desire God's presence. They were afraid of Him. Why? Had God changed? No, God still loved them as before, and was not angry at them. But they perceived that God had changed, and they perceived God in a way that led them to be afraid of Him. The problem was all in their perception, because they had allowed the serpent to replace the truth about God for a lie.

OK, I'll stop there. Those are some of the ideas, or at least related ideas, John was sharing. I hope this is understandable.

One more thought. The plan of salvation involves teaching us to see things as God see them. (When John speaks of accepting God's righteousness and rejecting our own, he has this idea in mind). One of the things, the principle thing, we need to see as it is in truth is the character of God Himself.

That helped ALOT, Tom, thanks! It made me think of some other things....I'll try to get my thoughts together.

Al's Mom is failing fast. Yesterday she went from the Nursing home to the ER. She has pneumonia and is bleeding internally...they are most worried about the pneumonia, as she has COPD and emphasemia (Smoked for 60 years - 3 pks a day ) It is so sad to see her suffer.... We will be at the hospital alot today...

I have a little time before we have to leave...so will see if I can collect my thoughts. Thanks!

Thanks Tom, for such custom tailored service; well represented!

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Tammy said: I believe Satan has created a wonderfully, masterful, successful deception, to cause people to think that sin is in the flesh, and not in the heart/mind.

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This is well said. I find that many actually cannot think of their heart apart from the flesh. This is very revealing.

So the power of temptation lies in a false perception of God.

What is it about the false perception that establishes the strength of temptation?
Why should a false idea about God have such profound impact upon its owner?
What happens in the heart and mind of the person who thinks it?