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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48235
03/12/06 08:06 AM
03/12/06 08:06 AM
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Tom,
Maybe you missed my question, "Have you read that book, 'Behold Your God' by Fred Wright?" Thanks!
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48236
03/12/06 08:11 AM
03/12/06 08:11 AM
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Sorry Tom. I hadn't checked my PM's before I went to this page, so I didn't see you had responded to my question there. I understand better where you are coming from, now...I thought I had just asked you before if you ever heard of Fred Wright...so I didn't think I was asking the same question twice. Sorry for the confusion. I'll start a new thread about Fred Wright. I think he is a big part of the problem here....
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48237
03/12/06 06:37 PM
03/12/06 06:37 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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I think we're getting off track here. If you will look at the first post I wrote in this topic, I brought up several themes, none of which involve F. T. Wright's ideas in the slightest. I brought up ideas which were being discussed by men who preached at the General Conference over 100 years ago.
If you look at Ellen White's writings, you will see that she presents the idea over and over again that Satan's means of fighting the Great Controversy is to misrepresent God's character as arbitrary, severe, harsh and cruel; as not having our best interests at heart. Given this is Satan's goal, we might ask just how it is that he goes about doing this.
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48238
03/13/06 02:08 AM
03/13/06 02:08 AM
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Active Member 2012
Very Dedicated Member
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,826
E. Oregon, USA
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Originally posted by Tom quote:
This is my motivation for discussing two subjects I discuss a lot, which are the satisfaction theory of the atonement and the destruction of the wicked. I perceive that these ideas present God's character in a way which is diametrically opposed to how it is in truth, presnting Him to be one who is arbitrary, severe, and cruel.
What many call "justice" is in reality arbitrary creulty. God is neither arbitrary nor cruel. He will not torture those who have rebelled against Him in molten lava either for a few days or for all eternity. He doesn't need to torture His Son in order to forgive us.
You asked more recently in this thread how Satan goes about misreprenting God with his own evilness (a point without contention!), but your point quoted above that God should not be portrayed as arbitrary and cruel is also a problem, given the portrayal is about "justice": God's "justice" is about a point of law, and you're avoiding it like hell fire, no pun intended, I don't think. Objecting to the atonement concept involving punishment for sin as arbitrary and cruel fails to deal with the legal aspect of breaking God's law.
So, it clearly isn't just Satan misrepresenting God's character: erroneous teachings do, too, but the atonement issue is on the other thread - re: God's wrath, at this time, and hopefully it can stay there.
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48239
03/13/06 03:19 AM
03/13/06 03:19 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Character certainly has to do with one's righteousness and how they stand for it. And when we are dealing with righteousness we cannot escape dealing with salvation.
Is our picture of God as one of the scrbes and pharises, so that therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not?
Is our concept of God, that we are do what he says, and not do what he does?
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48240
03/13/06 04:51 AM
03/13/06 04:51 AM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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quote:
Thus says the LORD of hosts:
Execute true justice,
Show mercy and compassion
Everyone to his brother. (Zech. 7:9)
This is God's justice. God sets things right by showing mercy and compassion.
quote:
Therefore the LORD will wait, that He may be gracious to you;
And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have mercy on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
Blessed are all those who wait for Him. (Isa. 30:18)
God's justice in manaifest by His mercy and grace.
quote:
Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. (ST 1/20/90)
This is the justice of God once again, God setting things right. He sets us right with Himself by revealing Himself to us through His Son Jesus Christ.
quote:
-- This is the at-one-ment; this is why He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows, that He might do that for us by breaking down all those things which separate hearts from hearts, both human and divine.
Notwishstanding this, we did esteem Him striken smitten of God, and afflicted. That was what we thought about it. We said, God is doing all this; God is killing Him, punishing Him, to satisfy His wrath, in order to let us off. That is the pagan conception of sacrifice. The Christian idea of sacrifice is this. Let us not the contrast. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
That is the Christian idea. Yes, sir. Indifference keeps, hatred keeps, selfishness keeps, or gives, if at all, but grudgingly, counting the cost, and figuring on some larger return at some future time. But love, and love only, sacrifices, gives freely, gives itself, gives without counting the cost; gives because it is love. That is sacrifice, whether it is the sacrifice of bulls and goats, or of Him who is the Lamb of God. It is the sacrifice that is revealed throughout the entire Bible. But the pagan idea of sacrifice is just the opposite. It is that god is always offended, always angry, and His wrath must be propitiated in some way....
I pray that God will let the sunlight of His truth shine into my heart, and into all of our hearts. Surely He hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows that He might bring us to Him; but we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. That is what we thought; that is what we esteemed; not what was, but what we thought was. Now, every text in the Bible that speaks of reconciliation, makes God the one who makes the reconciliation,-- God in Christ. Every text in the Bible that speaks of the atonement, when we get it right, makes God the one who makes the atonement in Christ; not Christ simply, but God in Christ; just as God in Christ creates, redeems, reconciles, He makes the atonement. And every time the atonement, reconciliation, or propitiation are mentioned, it leads us right back to the character of God. (GCB 1897; Fifield)
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48241
03/13/06 11:22 AM
03/13/06 11:22 AM
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quote:
If you look at Ellen White's writings, you will see that she presents the idea over and over again that Satan's means of fighting the Great Controversy is to misrepresent God's character as arbitrary, severe, harsh and cruel; as not having our best interests at heart. Given this is Satan's goal, we might ask just how it is that he goes about doing this.
I agree with your statement here...BUT, so would have FRED WRIGHT. His misconception of the character of God, causes him to misrepresent God's character and how God deals with humans.
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48242
03/13/06 11:31 AM
03/13/06 11:31 AM
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quote:
So, it clearly isn't just Satan misrepresenting God's character: erroneous teachings do, too,
Exactly, Colin. She says, quote:
It is through false theories and traditions that Satan gains his power over the mind. By directing men to false standards, he misshapes the character. {DA 671.1}
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48243
03/13/06 11:47 AM
03/13/06 11:47 AM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,196
Ontario
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quote:
It is through false theories and traditions that Satan gains his power over the mind. By directing men to false standards, he misshapes the character.
So what is the character of God?
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Re: Is The Character of God Being Misrepresented?
#48244
03/13/06 01:22 PM
03/13/06 01:22 PM
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Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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quote:
Originally posted by John Boskovic:
So what is the character of God?
If you wish to understand the character of God you have to do it by proxy since no one has seen God at any time. The easiest way to understand the character of God is to understand the character of man and the rest of Creation. He cannot be worst than the best humans can be and are.
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