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Re: I need advice...
#49128
09/16/03 03:45 AM
09/16/03 03:45 AM
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Avalee, that's really a frightening concept, since Charles Manson, Son of Sam, David Koresh, the Reverend Jimmy Jones, and a host of other n'er-do-wells also claimed "Our only authority comes from what God tells us to do." And as far as "as long as it is correct", who deterimnes "correctness"? Who "interprets" the Voice of God, or the Word of God, to you? (Even your reading of Scripture is tainted by the translators particular theological bent and "traditional" understandings of what a text meant or should mean.) You see, I also claim MY only authority comes from what God tells ME to do, and I reject the church "interpreting" God's Word to me. Now, I don't quite view myself in the above catagory (though others might ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif) ) and I think that what makes the difference is that I am willing to alter (or at least examine) my beliefs, if 1) shown from Scripture with 2) a reasonable explantion. So, the question remains, Who weilds authority?
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Re: I need advice...
#49129
09/16/03 03:10 PM
09/16/03 03:10 PM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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Durk I know that Sarah is not a Charles Manson so that is being very silly. The scriptures tell us to obey authority unless it goes against what God says...I do not think Sarah choosing to keep the Sabbath the way God intends is making her be like a charles manson or any other like that. We do really need to have some commen sence here. And these people were and are following Satan...by their fruits you shall know them.
Durk you can choose to do as you wish in this world...obey man or God. In the end that is what it will come down to. I pray that you will be able to know the difference. It will mean your eternal life.
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Re: I need advice...
#49130
09/16/03 10:29 PM
09/16/03 10:29 PM
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Avalee, you completely missed the point, which is that if we all start claiming God as our only authority, pretty soon God's theology and our theology exactly coincide. We can do whatever we want, because God is our only authority. He spoke to me and told me thus and so. So where is the body or organization or entity that says, "No, God ACTUALLY means this, or that." Who has authority to interpret God's word?
By the way, in my experience, when people "pray for me", what they really want is for God to make me see things the way they do. So it's fine with me if you forego that little charade.
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Re: I need advice...
#49131
09/17/03 11:59 AM
09/17/03 11:59 AM
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Sarah's asking for advice was the appropriate thing to do, for even though God is our only and ultimate authority, God has also delegated authority to His body, the church, therefore, it is appropriate to seek advice from the members of His body, the church.
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Re: I need advice...
#49132
09/18/03 02:42 AM
09/18/03 02:42 AM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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I agree that we can seek advice and that God has given His authority to the church.... But only if they are right with the God and the Bible quote:
God's Claims are First
God's Amazing Grace
Page 59
We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29
. . . . We are to recognize human government as an ordinance of divine appointment, and teach obedience to it as a sacred duty, within its legitimate sphere. But when its claims conflict with the claims of God, we must obey God rather than men. God's word must be recognized as above all human legislation. A "Thus saith the Lord" is not to be set aside for a "Thus saith the church" or a "Thus saith the state." The crown of Christ is to be lifted above the diadems of earthly potentates.
The above quote that God has given us through the Spirit of Prophecy is about how we are to obey God when they try to make us obey the Sunday Laws...but the principal is there for those who want to see it. Those who are truly searching and wanting to truly follow God in all He says will obey His word...and will also take council in what man or church has said..as long as it is from a "thus saith the Lord" Amen
We have council not only from the scriptures but from the Spririt of Prophecy that we are to obey God rather than man when man or church goes against what God has told us to do. This is very plain.
Durk I am so sorry you feel the way you do. If I have offended you I am sorry. ![[Heart]](graemlins/heart.gif) However, I stand behind what I have written and what the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy say. We really need to have some common sense..we here are not talking about the nuts like the ones you mentioned above...Koresh and those...but who do we obey when it comes to what is
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Re: I need advice...
#49133
09/17/03 03:06 PM
09/17/03 03:06 PM
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Charter Member
Active Member 2014
Most Dedicated Member
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,019
Northern CA
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quote:
Faith And Works
Page 78
You know how it is with the papal power. The people have no right to interpret the Scriptures for themselves. They must have someone else interpret the Scriptures for them. Have you no mind? Have you no reason? Has not God given judgment to the common people just as well as He has to the priests and rulers? When Christ, the Lord of life and glory, came to our world, if they had known Him, they never would have crucified Him. God had told them to search the Scriptures: "In them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me" (John 5:39).
God help us to be Bible students. Until you can see the reason for it yourself and a "thus saith the Lord" in the Scriptures, don't trust any living man to interpret the Bible for you. And when you can see this, you know it for yourself, and know it to be the truth of God. You will say, "I have read it, I have seen it, and my own heart takes hold upon it, and it is the truth God has spoken to me from His Word." Now this is what we are to be--individual Christians. We need to have an individual, personal experience. We need to be converted, as did the Jews. If you see a little light, you are not to stand back and say, "I will wait until my brethren have seen it." If you do, you will go on in darkness. and say, "I will wait until my brethren have seen it." If you do, you will go on in darkness.
God help us to have a knowledge of the truth, and if you have seen the truth of God, press right to the light and put up the bars behind you. Make not flesh your arm; but have a living experience for yourselves, and then your countenance will shine with the glory of God. You have walked with Him, and He has upheld you. You have wrestled with Him and pleaded with Him, and He has let His light shine upon you.
God is so good to give us His Word to guide us in everything..Amen
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Re: I need advice...
#49134
09/20/03 02:38 AM
09/20/03 02:38 AM
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It is not always easy to balance "thus says the Lord" and "thus say the church". Our authority has to come from God, and sometimes things are not always black and white. As to Pathfinders on Sabbath, this is not a decision that has come down from the church, or even the church board. It is a decision from one or two select persons. The church, vicariously, approves of the decision by not changing it.
I believe that when we need to make decisions, we must through prayer seek out the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy and sometimes the Christian advice of fellow believers.
Perhaps many of my motives for disliking Pathfinders on Sabbath are self-motivated, but not the most important. I truly believe that we deprive our children and youth when we confine all church activities and Christian gatherings to one day. We have Pathfinders who do not attend an Adventist academy. These are in public school, and who knows but that their only Christian fellowship, leadership or gathering (outside the family for most) is at Pathfinders? Where can they find spiritual refreshment during the midst of the week when the enemy has been surrounding them for 5-6 days out of 7? How can we convince children and youth that Christianity is to be lived 7 days a week when we can only find time for them on one day? It feels to me that the priorities are wrong when we cannot commit to a time for our children in the midst of the battle to refresh our souls.
It is wonderful to see children taking classes such as music, exercise, etc. during the week, but are those things more important than seeking God in the midst of the week? Do our priorities lie in the right places?
How much do we lose by isolating Christian activities and gatherings to the one Sabbath day - and making it so busy that we lose the rest and refreshment we are promised? Do our youth and children benefit from such programming? I fear not, and I know that I would not have.
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Re: I need advice...
#49135
09/19/03 05:13 PM
09/19/03 05:13 PM
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Avalee, When I read your last two posts, this verse came to mind: quote:
2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
What then does the above text mean? Shouldn't it also apply to the private interpretation of any other Bible verse?
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Re: I need advice...
#49136
09/19/03 05:15 PM
09/19/03 05:15 PM
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Sarah,
Then you have the right to have it taken to the Church Board for a decision there?
If there is a Sabbath observance, etc type of a concern, then that would be the direction I would have gone first.
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Re: I need advice...
#49137
09/21/03 08:04 AM
09/21/03 08:04 AM
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Veteran Member
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
USA
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Amen to your entire post Sarah! This is how I have always felt. The Sabbath can be caused to be a burden and this is wrong. It is to be a joy not a burden.
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