By the way, because Mike is the one promoting we could have a sinless perfect life and fulfill the law demands through our obedience, then you MUST HAVE a perfect sinless life, you never sinned since the day you were baptized.

Dare to admit it Mike?

In His love

James S.

I am surprised and sadden that as one who claims to follow Jesus a professing Christian would ask another Christian such a question. What a shame for you to do such a thing. Mike has never said in any of these posts that he has not sinned since he was born again. We have strong council against that very thing from the Spirit of Prophecy. A truly converted person will not go around saying they are without sin. I also believe they will not be even thinking of it. They live their life following Jesus. If you think that it is not possible to attain to the life that Jesus lived you are very mistaken.

Yes we are human, and we may fall. But if we do we have advocate to go to for forgiveness. But do we go and ask for forgiveness to just go back and continue to sin? This is a mockery to God and His promises to be with us and give us the strengh to overcome anything. How can you or anyone else make so light of what Jesus went through in the wilderness? How can anyone think that it is not possible to overcome all sin when Jesus went through 40 days of great temptation in the wilderness. What a slap in the face to Jesus and all the pain He went through then.

quote:

---

Desire of Ages
Page 116-117

Many look on this conflict between Christ and Satan as having no special bearing on their own life; and for them it has little interest. But within the domain of every human heart this controversy is repeated. Never does one leave the ranks of evil for the service of God without encountering the assaults of Satan. The enticements which Christ resisted were those that we find it so difficult to withstand. They were urged upon Him in as much greater degree as His character is superior to ours. With the terrible weight of the sins of the world upon Him, Christ withstood the test upon appetite, upon the love of the world, and upon that love of display which leads to presumption. These were the temptations that overcame Adam and Eve, and that so readily overcome us.

---

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 Peter 1:14-16
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Philippians 4
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Amen what precious promises God has given us. I am so thankful that when I became a Christian I was given a mind that does not listen to those who do not truly believe in Jesus and that He has overcome Satan completly and given us the power to overcome Satan too. What a glorious thing this is...and such a peace we have when we are one with Christ in our minds.

quote:

---

And how this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the word of God. Only by the word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2 Peter 1:4. Every promise in God's word is ours. "By every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" are we to live. When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the word. All its strength is yours. "Thy word," says the psalmist, "have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against Thee." "By the word of Thy lips I have kept me from the paths of the destroyer." Ps. 119:11; 17:4.

---

Wouldn't the spotless\sinless life be based upon whether the person had faith or not?
It is through faith that we are justified, and we are righteous, and by our faith since we love the lord with all our heart that we obey Him. Things like love they neighbor, don;t covet thy neighbors belongings, remember the Sabbath etc etc.. God work's on a person's heart and will bring these things to mind so you the individual can make the decision of whom you will serve.
This would be diffrent from one who does not know or care to know who Jesus is and what He did for them, and for us all.
It would be from the inside out.. ANy thoughts?
God Bless,
Will

Yes, Will, it would be from the inside out.

It definitely isn't from the outside in.

That is why we come to Jesus just as we are, a sinner, transformed from within by the grace of God, from which springs forth joyful obedience empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Faith plus the resulting works of obedience = Living Faith.

Faith minus the resulting works of obedience = Dead Faith.

Amen! We are converted when we´re born again. The old is gone and everything is new. 2 Cor 5:17. The water (i.e. works) that flows in and out of us is pure and undefiled. We are just as righteous as Jesus was. 1 John 2:7. For it His righteousness that flows in and out of us. True, we are not as mature as He was, but the difference is not sin - rather it has to do with depth and degree of righteousness. Like sun light is brighter than candle light so too Jesus´ righteousness out shines ours. Both, however, are light.

This would equate to the renewing of the Holy Ghost correct?
Where before you were saved you were one way, but prior to being saved the Holy Spirit is working on you and impressing your heart to make a decision.
This renewing continues after you are baptized as well ( I believe it does), since we heed to the Word of God and want to follow Him. Yet if we fail due to our own weaknesses (mentally) we have an Advocate in Heaven and our sins will be forgiven.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
God Bless,
Will

Daryl.

First, I would comment on Ephesians 2:8-10.

Paul clearly said there, that we are saved by God’s grace through faith, which is a gift. Next step is to have good works, that I assume is “love to our fellowman”, a phrase that is all around in Pauline epistle. I would not say that the good works Paul meant is keeping and obeying the Ten Commandments, for my study say that is not the case. Why “love to our fellowman?” Because “love” is fruit of the Spirit and not deeds of the flesh, you may have fruits of the Spirit only when you live with faith and walk after the Spirit.

Then you try to clarify the relationship between “faith and works” using James 2:20-26 to give the impression of how important “works” is in its relationship with faith, which are the deeds of the law for those who were under the law.

At the end, I see your conclusion is that “works” has a same level with “faith” in justification, which I believe will stands against Paul theology that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I think that your presentations and others here even seems right but stands in contradiction with what the Gospel said.

I believe that there must be no contradiction even it seems so, it is just the way how we interpret those verses of different author in the Gospel of Christ, there must be a harmony; otherwise it is not the Gospel of Christ.

My view of James 2:20-26, which I believe is in harmony with the Gospel of Christ is:

Paul said that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law, this man would have fruits of the Spirit, which are the good works of those who lived with faith and walked after the Spirit, but these “works” are not deeds of the law based on his desires to keep and obey the law (Ten Commandments) because Paul was against those who desired to come under the law. Rather, these good works are the willing and the doing of the Spirit, which is love to our fellowman.

James said that if a man has not good works, his faith is dead, because genuine faith always bear “good works”, which are “love to our fellowman” as he mentioned earlier in James 2:14-16. The same is said in James 2:1,8.

Therefore, I see that James view was not against Paul, because the “good works” are the same, which is love as fruits of the Spirit and not deeds of the law when you are obliged to keep and obey the law for those who are under the Ten Commandments’ jurisdiction. What James meant with “the perfect law that gives freedom”, which he also said “the royal law” is LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF and not the Ten Commandments.

Both Paul and James were not under the jurisdiction of the law of the Ten Commandments, but they knew that they would have deeds that fulfill the law demands when they have the love of God that expressed it self in deeds of love to their fellowman. Therefore, James didn’t say that the Ten Commandments that would judge us but “the law that gives freedom”, mentioned earlier as “love your neighbor as your self.”

The Ten Commandments it self is not a law that gives freedom, for according to Paul, it is a law that condone slavery because it strengthen the sin in us to dominate us when we desire to keep and obey the law. To accept the Ten Commandments as God’s standard of judgment and righteousness is to accept the law of condemnation that brought death as a means of salvation, which of course would only condemns law keepers for their sins done in their life.

Even James went further than Paul saying that “works” is counted in justification and not faith only, but he was not against Paul, for these “works” are not deeds of the law but “love as fruits of the Spirit.” I can agree with him, because if we have no love to our fellowman, as James said, our faith is a fake, and God could not justify us.

However, because you are under the Ten Commandments’ jurisdiction, you believe that good works are perfect obedience to the Ten Commandments, which are deeds of the law. In this case, you stand against Paul and James.

Whether God justify a man by his faith; or by his faith when he has good works, which means good works is counted for justification in the judgment, but no one who was under the law would ever be justified by the law. For there is no one that might stand perfect and righteous before the law to be justified, otherwise Christ died in vain. However, as long it is not a justification by faith with the deeds of the law, it is not against the Gospel of Christ because Paul was really against it and James didn’t mean either.

In His love

James S.

Mike.

Jesus surely can empower us to live without sinning, I know this and believe this. What I didn’t believe is saying that you might have a perfect obedience to the Ten Commandments that fulfill the law demands without ever sinning in your whole life, because this view is clearly against the Gospel of Christ. Why? Because those who sinned under the law would be judge by the law; those who never sinned under the law would be justified by the law unto eternal life, but he is fallen away from grace and Christ means nothing to him, Christ died in vain – Galatians 2:21; 5:4.

But by faith I eagerly wait through the Spirit the righteousness for which I hope – Galatians 5:5. The righteousness that comes from the willing and the doing of God in me through the Spirit – Philippians 2:13. The righteousness of God without the law that was manifested in Jesus Christ for all who believe, a righteousness that comes by faith – Romans 3:21,22.

In His love

James S.

Avalee.

If you really study the bible you would find out that God didn’t ask you to obey his Ten Commandments, but to love him. You will find out that to follow in the footsteps of Christ is not to come under the jurisdiction of the Ten Commandments as he was but to love your neighbor as yourself.

Find it!

In His love

James S.

Avalee.

All right!

You have answered your own question of this topic, that no man might ever live a sinless perfect life ever since he was reborn, which I agree.

I asked those question because I must really clear to understand Mike who said that we could stop sinning from the moment we are reborn, that our life forward is to mature in the fruit of the Spirit, to mature in righteousness. This gives an impression that we could live perfectly sinless ever since the day we were reborn.

To me, the Gospel is clear that no man might be justified by the law for his obedience, not because justification is by faith and not by the law, but because justification by faith is God’s gift to justify men to enter heaven for no man is perfect and righteous before the law due his obedience is not perfect, he has sinned and broke the law in his life. If God doesn’t justify us by faith, there is no way for a law keeper to enter heaven.

Thus, justification by faith is the gift of God based on his grace to replace justification by the law no man might attain through his works of obedience to the law.

Romans 8:3,4 clearly said that the law could not justify us to eternal life because the flesh is weak, but Christ did it and through our faith in him and a walk after the Spirit we may have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us without coming under the law’s jurisdiction that would only condemn us for our failures in keeping it perfectly.

In His love

James S.