Avalee wrote:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


There it is plain as day. If you do not realy love Jesus you will not keep the commandments. You can not get any plainer than this.

______________________
In The Blessed Hope

Avalee

Unquote.

And later John said:

John 15
17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

1 John 3
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

It is plain as day that the commandment we should keep is “love one another" and not the "Ten Commandments."

In His love

James S.

Will wrote:

James,
quote:


James 2:18
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Looks like this goes against your false doctrine James. You do violence against the Word of God

God Bless,
Will

Unquote.

Is it hard to understand my views that you must say those things?

I clearly presented that those who lived with faith and walked after the Spirit would produce fruits of the Spirit, which is love to their fellowman; that is the works of faith. But these “fruits” is not obedience to the Ten Commandments through keeping and obeying it, but it is a natural outflow of the hearts filled with the love of God that seeks no self. Christ believer is enabled to love his fellowman because he has the love of God that seeks no self imparted in his heart by the Spirit; he is unable to love his fellowman because his heart is still selfish, he still loved himself more.

I see the way you believe that your fruits of the Spirit is obedience to the Ten Commandments, which I disagree. Because I believe that to love our fellowman is a natural outflow of hearts filled by the love of God that was shed abroad by the Spirit and not an effort to be righteous by obeying the Ten Commandments.

May be you didn’t understand that NOT KEEPING THE TEN COMMANDMENTS doesn’t mean BREAKING WHAT IS WRITTEN THERE. How could he transgress the thing written in the Ten Commandments when the love of God ruled his heart? Isn’t love the fulfillment of the law? This believer may have deeds that conforms the law requirements without coming under its jurisdiction, for to love his fellowman as the requirements written on stone tablets is not his effort through obedience but A NATURAL OUTFLOW FROM HEARTS FILLED WITH THELOVE OF GOD.

Can you have the love of God through obedience to the law? NO! Otherwise Christ doesn’t need to come and died for us. You could only have the love of God through faith, for it is a gift shed by the Spirit.

When you have the love of God shed abroad in your heart by the Spirit through faith as a gift, is it necessary for you to come under the Ten Commandments’ jurisdiction and judgment? Is it necessary for you to keep and obey an external law? Why should you? Isn’t love the fulfillment of the Ten Commandments? If it is, then you would do what is written in the law without giving any attention for it, because you do it naturally. That is what is meant by: God wrote his law in our heart.; you didn’t need an external law to guide you to do what the law demands, you do it from within your hearts, overflowed with the love of God that seeks no self.

In His love

James S.

Will wrote:

James,
quote:


James 2:10-12
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Can you elaborate on the above verses from James 2:10-12. What is being said here?

God Bless,
Will

Unquote.

I have presented and clarified this verse many times here, even to you too, but unless you forget it, I would repeat it again.

James has mentioned earlier that we must love our fellowman without showing favoritism, if we show favoritism, it means we don’t have love to our fellowman, we are still selfish.

Then he used the Ten Commandments as a COMPARISON; those who said they kept the whole law but offended one of it, has broken the whole law. He must act and do as what he claimed himself to be. The same with those who said they loved their fellowman but shows favoritism, indeed they didn’t have love to their fellowman but selfish people.

James mentioned also that the law of liberty that gives freedom, the royal law found in the Scripture is: Love your neighbor as yourself. He didn’t say that this law is the Ten Commandments.

After making comparison using the law of the Ten Commandments, he backed again to his speech about loving our fellow man without showing favoritism, for those who said so but shows favoritism would be judge according to it.

Why is “love” the law of liberty, the law that gives freedom? Because love, which is the principle of the law released us from being selfish, it gives freedom from the sin in us; our self-love nature.

Is the Ten Commandments a law that gives freedom, that gives liberty? No! Because this law condone slavery, being under the law would make sin dominates us, it strengthen the sin in us, our self-love nature to do the things required by the law to be righteous, but on the contrary, it increased our sins and at the end kills us. Therefore, according to Paul, the law written and engraved on stone is a law that kills, its ministry brought condemnation and death.

No man might ever be righteous before the law trough his obedience to be justified by the law unto eternal life, therefore, Christ came and died to redeem those who were under the law that justifies them unto eternal life. If righteousness come by the law, Christ died in vain.

It is hard to accept the truth that stands against what you are used to think and believed, same happen to me, but I am searching for the truth, and when it is a truth, no matter it stands against the Church doctrine or against EGW I accept it because it is the truth of the Gospel of Christ.

In His love

James S

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


If a perons can read all the above scriptures and still teach the falsehood that the Ten Commandments are not binding today then I just do not know what else to say. It is so very plain that Jesus has told us what to do. The following verse is very plain.

Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

It was given before but it seems some want to just ignore what the Holy Scriptures are saying.

Mat 15:14

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

James,
You have missed the whole point, and claim again what you preach is truth. A teachable heart many have and some don't I choose to learn what God reveals in His Word, and not cut out certain parts and ignore what the Bible as a whole teaches. You did just that trying to make sure that the book of James was inline with what Paul said.. It's really sick, but I prefer to use the whole Bible not just a few pages. I stand by faith what is written in the Bible in regards to these plain truths.
God Bless,
Will

James said,

quote:

---

Is the Ten Commandments a law that gives freedom, that gives liberty? No!

---

The Bible says the precise opposite:

"I will walk at liberty: for I seek Thy precepts." Psalm 119:45

That the word "precepts" here means the Ten Commandments is so obvious as not to need any explanation; the whole of Psalm 119 is about the Ten Commandments.

[edit] More evidence that obedience to God's law makes men free indeed:

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and Thy law is the truth." Psalm 119:142

"Thou art near, O Lord; and all Thy commandments are truth." Psalm 119:151



"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." Romans 6:18

"My tongue shall speak of Thy word: for all Thy commandments are righteousness." Psalm 119:172

[ February 06, 2004, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: John ]

Will, I can relate to what you´re saying. I hate it when I fall. But the reason is always the same - I took my eyes off Jesus. That simplifies things. Instead of listing all the reasons why I failed it all boils down to the one and the same thing - I took my eyes off Jesus.

When we fail it is dangerous to assume anything else other than we took our eyes off Jesus. If we attempt to figure out why we failed based on this or that thing we did or didn´t do (as if anything other than keeping our eyes on Jesus counts) then we are going to get ourselves in trouble. There is no temptation too difficult for God to help us resist unto His honor and glory - regardless of whether or not we forgot to do this or that thing.

Yes, there are things we can and must do daily in order not to fail. Diet, Bible study, scripture songs, avoiding bad influences, etc. and much more are important and necessary. However, the purpose of these things is to help us keep our eyes on Jesus. They have no real intrinsic value otherwise.

If and when we fail we cannot conclude - It´s because I didn´t get enough sleep, or I ate too late last night, or I forgot devotions this morning, or I didn´t quote the right text when tempted, etc. The reason why we fail is because we take our eyes off Jesus. Period! Whether or not we do or don´t do this or that important thing failing has nothing to do with anything other than we took our eyes off Jesus.

We must never believe that failing or succeeding depends on what we do or don´t do. Our success depends on one thing only - Jesus! In the heat of temptation we must focus on one thing - Jesus, not on whether or not I need to do this or that thing to resist. If we make Jesus the focus of our attention we will walk away victorious. But if we make this or that thing our focus then we have already failed.

In the heat of temptation we must walk with Jesus in our minds eye. If we flee to Him and spend time with Him we are victorious. But we must not flee to Jesus and beg Him to help us overcome our present temptation. Nor should we flee to Him and beg Him to empower us to behave in the opposite way of our present temptation. If we make temptation or righteousness the purpose of our spending time with Jesus then we are focusing on behaviour and not Jesus.

If we focus on behviour then we are not spending time with Jesus. Instead we´re using Him to help ourselves. It´s like we´re Jesus´pimp or something, and we´re using Him for our own selfish purposes. Not good. The only way we can successfully resist temptation unto the honor and glory of God is to spend time with Jesus as with a friend - not as His pimp.

As we show an interest in Him and what matters to Him we will become so absorbed with how awesome He is that the present temptation will lose all its power and appeal. That´s the only true victory. The victory has to do with walking with Jesus as with a friend - not so much that we didn´t sin. If all we do is not sin then we are unprofitable servants.

God is good. Thank you Jesus.

Avalee.

To comment on your post dated 05 February:

When the Old Testament people said about the law, I knew they meant it with the laws engraved on stone tablets and what Moses wrote.

When Paul, John and James wrote about the law to be kept, I didn’t see it as the Ten Commandments, but “love your fellowman as your self.”

I know that I am right about this.

In His love

James S.

Will.

Sorry, but I have presented what is true, meanwhile, I see that what you wrote is not the truth.

In His love

James S.