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Re: Formula For A Healthy Church
#49451
04/04/05 01:19 PM
04/04/05 01:19 PM
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Thomas, that parable deals with situations where we can't tell whether people are true Christians or not; it doesn't deal with those who openly sin. "Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes."
{COL 71.3} We can't judge motives, but we're commanded to judge according to actions where open sin is involved, and to act accordingly. One example: 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
11 "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." Another: Matthew 18:15-17
15 "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." One of the reasons the church is so feeble at present is that sinful behavior is, by and large, tolerated by too many in leadership positions.
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Re: Formula For A Healthy Church
#49452
04/05/05 03:58 AM
04/05/05 03:58 AM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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quote:
Originally posted by John:
Thomas, that parable deals with situations where we can't tell whether people are true Christians or not; it doesn't deal with those who openly sin.
May I object that both the servants and the owner of the field where quite clear that there where weeds and wanted to uproot them. The objection doesnt seem to be that they would pull the wheat but that the wheat would follow unintended while rooting up the weeds. As with any weeding, pulling up one root loosens the earth around it and if it grows tangled with other roots both would be pulled up.
1 cor 5:1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?
...
6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast–as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
Matt 18:10“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
12“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninetynine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninetynine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
...
18“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19“Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventyseven times.
23“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26“The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’
30“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
These are some great bible chaptes John, thanks for bringing them up.
/Thomas
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Re: Formula For A Healthy Church
#49453
04/05/05 01:41 AM
04/05/05 01:41 AM
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Would you want to live in a town with no laws and no law enforcement? No church discipline, no church. But then some today would prefer exactly that. LK
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Re: Formula For A Healthy Church
#49454
04/05/05 02:42 PM
04/05/05 02:42 PM
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Let's go a step further:
Would you want to live in the New Earth with no laws?
If there had not have been any laws, then Lucifer could have done what he had done without any consequences from God, Eve and then Adam could have done what they had done without any consequences from God, and today we all could do whatever we are doing without any consequences from God. I stress without any consequences from God as look what man is doing to man, and even amidst imperfect man-made laws!
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Re: Formula For A Healthy Church
#49455
04/05/05 08:05 PM
04/05/05 08:05 PM
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Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
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Larry and Daryl
Where did you pick up the idea of lawlessness in this thread? Was it the quotes from Matthew 13, Matthew 18 or 1 Corinthians 5? Was it somewhere else?
/Thomas
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