Sorry, I not that computer litterate (the computer age has added a whole new meaning to the phrase "You can't trust anyone over 30)

So often garbage such as the movies mentioned seem to generate more heat than light. In the early part of the discussion Dora, Avalee and razzoren were right on target; thanks.

I wonder how many of us, and I'm *not* judging, spend as much time with the writings of EGW as we do watching junk movies and reading junk books.

May the Lord help us! A pleasant holiday to all of you whether you are pro or con!

And what exactly about this movie/book qualifies it as "junk?" I assume you have either read the book or seen the movie to make such an claim.

Come to think if it, outside the church, EGW creates more heat than light. Perhaps people outside the church should treat her the same way we treat C. S. Lewis. Don’t believe me? Do a Google or Yahoo! search for her and see what people have to say about Sister White.

And what of our brother Joe Crews? Was he also immersed in “junk,” or did he see that Lewis has some very valid points?

The schema still lives!

Yes, I read Mrs. White. I love Mrs. White and am interested enough to minor in her thought and writings when I worked on getting my master's degree. I've read what she said about fiction, as well as studied into her writings about fiction. Now Mrs. White tells us what is junk and what is not junk. I also know what she said (especially when deaing with the issue of the daily) about what in central in her writings and what are not, and what I find facinating about Lewis is that he tends to focus on the same things that Mrs. White said was important as she was discussing the daily. Often I'm able to show a point by quoting both Mrs. White and Lewis as who ever may not notice it in one might see it in the other.

Now I am not placing Lewis on the same level as Mrs. White because we know that Mrs. White was directly inspired, and as far as we know for sure, Lewis was only indirectly inspired, a mind lead by the Holy Spirit in his study and meditation with out the direct communication of dreams and visions. How ever it is amazing how they both were attracted to and highlighted the same principles from the scriptures.

As we face the issues at the end of time, many will make the correct choices from what they read in Lewis, and many who will hear us teach from Mrs. White will be open to the message because Lewis plowed the heart.

I fear that there are too many who do not like to listen to what Mrs. White taught about how she wants her writings to be used and how she does not want them to be used. There are too many who like to edit her works to support their ideas and use her role as a prophet to demand blind accpetance of their ideas. That God could use others to give evidence does not appeal to their powerhungry natures or the powerhungry have followers who like to timidly follow. Whether powerhungry or one caught in their web I feel that much of the criticizism of Lewis comes from wanting to protect their powerbase or fear of God condeming them if they do not support someones powerbase.

I have in the last days read several newspaper reviews and commentaries on this movie, all in secular papers in a secular country and they all mention the christian theme in the movie and books. They have been at best neutral about it but all the reviewers have had to acknowledge it.

/Thomas

Using Testimonies in the Pulpit.

"A purported Ellen G. White statement credited to "Proper Use of the Testimonies," pages 4, 5, to the effect that her writings should never be read from the pulpit, is unauthenticated."

This information comes from the Ellen White Estate, and may help answer some of the above questions. It has been said by our pastor, that we are not us use EW's writings from the pulpit, but when asked about it, he had no information, just said he had heard that.

Thank you Dora!!!

In college and Semiary the story was shared in class, but I don't remember the source, that there was a pastor who was ONLY reading to the congragation from Mrs. White's worked when preaching, and that she told him to first study for what the Bible said, and to continue to study the Bible, then after he studied the Bible that he can turn to her writings to see how she applied the text.

Also, in dealing with the issue of the daily, there was further study into the text and came up with other possible understandings of the text. Now Mrs. White had made a number of comments about God leading the Millerites, and in these discriptions she used some Millerite termanalogy, including what they were saying about the daily and that they had the correct understanding of the daily.

Well, if God's prophet said that they had the correct understanding of the daily, then why study for any other understanding. To this Mrs. White wrote a lot about what visions did and did not do for her, including the statement that her writings are NOT to be used to answer questions like what is the meaning of the daily in Daniel...in other worlds you are NOT to use her to do exegesus on the text. Her prophetic work with applying Biblical princples to the development of the SDA church, pointing towards looking for neglected truth, and to tell about the issues of the great controversy. Everything else was applicaton and her explanations of what God showed her.

After 1923 when Fundamentalism ran rampant, everyword she wrote became treated as word for word from God and was used to whip people into shape. In the late 1920s they started calling Mrs. White an inspired commentary on the Bible (Judgeing from what she wrote about the daily she probably began spinning in her grave). Her counsel that if it is ever discovered that she wrote something that does not agree with the Bible that we should follow the Bible became a taunt as if to say "I dare you to find anything that does not agree with the Bible." and an all or nothing stance.

Well as we progressed from the 20s into the 50s people found themselves attracted to certan groupings of Ellen White quotes and eventually split into "Historic Adventists" and "New Theology" and they have been at war at each other throwing texts and quotes at each other and many of us have been stuck in the middle and there has been a lot of wounding in this warfare, and so a distancing from this wonderful gift. After the pain from these TWO new theologies (although one claims not to be new) fighting it out, there have been many wounded people and they have misunderstood the counsel to the pastor who did nothing but read Ellen White, and the counsel about the daily and turned it into a not reading Ellen White in church.

I have no problem reading Mrs. White, whether to an Adventist congragation or to non-adventists. From time to time Felix Lorenze reads Mrs. White in the Non-Adventist church he works with. I like Lewis as I can hold his ideas side by side with hers to non-adventists (just as she discribed her use of health reformers).

Mrs. White needs to be read in our churches and even more in our homes. but we need to re-examine her counsel conserning issues such as the daily, and see how we should use her...

let me use a classic example. Mrs. White's inspiration would see it important on issues such as studying the issues of the Great Controversy, and how to establish a mission outside of New York City and how to work cities in general.

But do we study to see how Mrs. White tells us how to work cities, or do we study her to answer questions of exegesus and what is the meaning of the daily or meaning of perfection or meaning of this theological debate or that one.

Thank you, Kevin, for that insightful post. I do feel we need balance in all things, and yes, I feel strongly, that if it does not speak to the Law and the Testimony, "there is no light in them." But, I have no argument with anyone on here as to how they intrepret that text, nor anything else discussed on here. Everyone has to make their own decisions, and hopefully using our basic Bible beliefs, which we know our church pioneers studied out, through nights of prayer. We need to be studying more together in our churches, as the early pioneers did. We need to use the Bible first, and the Spirit of Prophecy writings along with it, to help us better understand. That is why God gave them.

But, you hit on one important thought that is so much neglected in our churches today. That is to have missions established in our cities. Places to first help people who need it, such as Jesus left an example for us in MH, P143, and then "He bade them follow Me." I know that is a need where I live, and EW spoke much about that need, so does Jesus.

We are starting a project in our church in conjunction with the community, it is called "Bags of Love." This is providing something for the many children who are taken from homes with meth labs, etc. and are stripped of clothes, toys, everything. It is a small beginning, but we want to do something to help in this world of pain, and what better place to start than with the children? Jesus said, "Of such is the kingdom of Heaven."

In His Love,