Durk,

We're probably working off the same page... but let me ask this question. If in order to "access" grace we must first "accept" it in what way is that not a condition upon recieving grace? Do you see what I mean?

If there were no conditions upon the grace of God - His unmerited favor - who then can be lost? By the way, what is the "favor" that we cannot earn if it isn't pardon and power over sin?

A good example of the need to define terms in any serious discussion. I understood the term "condition" to mean somethin we had to achieve in order to qualify for grace, a notion which I reject. However, I do agree that we must "do something" in order to access the grace freely offered, 'else all would be saved even without the knowledge of Christ or accepting Him, a position which Scripture does not (IMHO) support.

And yes, I do think we are opperating off the same page, praise the Lord.

Ah, now I see what you were dealing with. Man, if it weren't for words people would be able to communicate, eh? Ha!

I'll be away on business until the 5th of June. So, I'll see ya when I get back. God bless.

LOL

I think the following text clearly says that God's grace does not nullify His law:

quote:

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Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

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Now what does the above tell us, especially in relation to the Gentiles?

To annul something means to put an end to it, to make it void.
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
We establish the law, the inference being that we have it as a part of us, it is established in us.
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jesus said He didn't come to destroy the law :
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
To fulfil, to establish, that all sounds like it is still in effect.
'Til heaven and earth pass away'-
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Paul himself typically begins his letters with Grace-type theology and ends them with a string of things to do that clarifies what it means to live under Grace.

The problem is that many "New Testament" Christians are one-verse Christians or they don't read to the end of Paul's letters to see what he's getting at.

Some people think that Romans has only 8 chapters. Paul actually takes 11 chapters to talk about Grace, Justification, Sanctification, Election, etc. (all that Theology) and then talks about giving our bodies entirely to God as a living sacrifice (ie. obedience).

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Be glad for all God is planning for you. Be patient in trouble, and always be prayerful. Rom. 12:12 NLT

I'm back. Was away on business. To answer the question regarding law and grace - to me it means that we are no longer "under" the condemnation of the law as lawbreakers (providing we are connected to Christ). Grace cancels condemnation - not the law.

But grace is conditional upon obedience, which in turn is conditional upon abiding in Christ. It all comes back to Jesus. Thank you, Lord!

In one sense grace does do away with the law, in that it gets our eyes on Jesus and off the law. We can never comply with the law by focusing on the law (you end up with a stoney heart). The ticket to law keeping is making Jesus number one in our lives. If we imitate His loving example the law will be satisfied by default.

WWJD is nice, but I prefer JWWD - Jesus, what would you do? The focus is Jesus instead of the law. I like talking to Jesus rather than talking about Him. He's our best friend and loves it when we talk to Him.

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Originally posted by Gerry Buck:
To annul something means to put an end to it, to make it void.

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I'm having some trouble with this definition. To annul does mean "1. to make formally void or null. 2. to reduce to nothing." (Random House Dictionary, I don't know the rest of the biblio 'cause the cover is torn off.) But I don't think it means "to put an end to" as in "stop doing something." To me it seems to cancel what has gone before.

Just hair-splitting, really.

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Originally posted by Mike Lowe:
But grace is conditional upon obedience, which in turn is conditional upon abiding in Christ. It all comes back to Jesus. Thank you, Lord!

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Hi Mike. Welcome back! Can you give me a few references on the above quote, or at least clarify your position. It seems to me that grace is conditional upon acceptance (of what Christ has done.)