Thanks for the response James.

I take it then that you don’t worry about the sabbath “rules” and just do or don’t do what you feel reflects love for God? Is that correct? If so, then you realize that you may not be following the sabbath as given, but it doesn’t matter because you are following your heart and not the law. Right? So it’s the “spirit” or intent of the sabbath commandment that you are honoring to please God, not the specifics. Right?

If that is correct, then I think that is great.

Paul states;

“5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.” Romans 14


If you are fully convinced in your own mind and have that faith between you and God, then you are doing what is right and good until the spirit shows you different. I would never say that what the spirit has shown you is wrong.


ps - looks like we got Ikan so charged up that he is speaking in tongues!

Lobo,

We all do the same thing as James out of love for what Christ did for us at Calvary, through which the 10 Commandments, written on stone, are now also written on our hearts.

Thus, the law, instead of being annulled, is established in our hearts.

Lobo, the quote you shared from Romans 14 has nothing to do with sabbath keeping. The passage is talking about food and fasting. The law of God does not depend on what we think is right or wrong. The Holy Spirit will never lead us to disobey the sabbath.

The sabbath keeping "rules" you keep talking about still apply in principle today. Nobody here is ignoring them or breaking them. We are keeping the seventh-day sabbath exactly they way it is described in the Bible. And not because we are working our way to heaven, but because the love of God fills our hearts.

Daryl,
I agree with what you have stated, but I believe it is the precepts of the law(s) that God gave to Israel that are on our hearts, not the specific laws.

Do you think the specific law to make your slaves keep the sabbath is on our hearts? How could that be on our heart knowing that slavery is a moral issue and against the law of love Jesus introduced in the NT?

So it cannot be the specific 10 C’s on our hearts or we have a moral dilemma here because owning slaves against their will is against Jesus law of love.

This is why the 10 C’s are inadequate when it comes to giving believers moral direction; they are too morally remedial in nature and do not come close to the moral level Jesus introduced.

So I think a more accurate way of saying that would be that we have Jesus law of love on our hearts once we are born again. His law supports the intent, but not the specifics, of the 10 c’s.

quote:

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Lobo, the quote you shared from Romans 14 has nothing to do with sabbath keeping. The passage is talking about food and fasting. The law of God does not depend on what we think is right or wrong. The Holy Spirit will never lead us to disobey the sabbath.

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Really Mike? Then what sacred day is Paul repeatedly talking about?

You see, unlike you, Paul and other Jews never separated the 10 laws originally on stone from the rest of the 613 laws. So Paul saw no difference between the sabbath and the special meals that were ate on the sabbath to commemorate the day. It was all rapped up together.

Do you think it would be consistent for Paul to say that the special meals and things that were done on the sabbath are a non-issue, but the day those things were designed for remains?

That doesn’t make sense.

I don’t understand how you can strip out all the items that were required related to the sabbath and then just leave the day without the other things that made it special. No Jew, including Jesus, ever did that.

quote:

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The sabbath keeping "rules" you keep talking about still apply in principle today. Nobody here is ignoring them or breaking them. We are keeping the seventh-day sabbath exactly they way it is described in the Bible. And not because we are working our way to heaven, but because the love of God fills our hearts.

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Why can you make the rules apply in principle and not the day apply in principle?

Does it seem to you that this taking of certain things and making it literal and others not is inconsistent? What person in scripture ever did that?

Lobo.

You wrote:

Thanks for the response James.

I take it then that you don’t worry about the sabbath “rules” and just do or don’t do what you feel reflects love for God? Is that correct? If so, then you realize that you may not be following the sabbath as given, but it doesn’t matter because you are following your heart and not the law. Right? So it’s the “spirit” or intent of the sabbath commandment that you are honoring to please God, not the specifics. Right?

If that is correct, then I think that is great.

Unquote.

You are right, I don’t worry about the Sabbath rules for I believe my love to God would expressed it selves in deeds that are in harmony with the law, including what is written on stone about the 4th commandment.

I think, if I follow the rules as according to the law, I will put the law ahead of me; this will make me again a law-keeper instead of a faith keeper that follows the Spirit. I become entangled again with the basic principle of the world and rebuilt again what I have destroyed; to focus on self through obedience to the law.

But through the Spirit, Christ live in me and I would do the things he had done including Sabbath keeping.

“Before faith has come we are under the supervision of the law, but now, when we lived by faith, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”

The law ceased to guide us to Christ for the need of righteousness by faith for it is Christ himself now that lead our life through faith.

Once I think by keeping and obeying the Sabbath as according to the “rules” written on stone, I am under the law and become a “slave” of self-righteousness. But now I think that if Christ is in me, I will do the things he had done and Sabbath keeping is a joy and happiness, no longer because of the law but because of Christ.

That’s the way I see.

In His love

James S

Lobo,

It was the sacrificial system and the ceremonial Sabbaths that came to an end at Calvary when Christ, the one that all those sacrifices pointed to, was voluntarily sacrificed for your sins and mine.

The Old Testament clearly differentiated between the weekly 7th day Sabbath and the ceremonial Sabbaths, so why can't you? And the New Testament did the same thing.

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Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

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The laws consisting in ordinances, typifying Christ’s death was the one nailed on the cross:

quote:

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Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

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It was, therefore, those laws dealing with ordinances and sacrifices that was abolished at the cross. The veil was torn in two to show this very fact.

quote:

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Mark 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

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Christ, the Lamb of God, sacrificed for you and I ended the need for any further sacrifices.

Lobo.

You wrote:

James, does that mean you will also keep all the appointed feasts and Jewish customs that Jesus did as well? Why is he your example in only sabbath keeping

Unquote.

Since Jesus was a Jew, he too must comply with the Jewish customs, for he must be justified by the law as a perfect righteous law keeper, in order he might be our sin redeemer.

But for us, after the cross, what remain is to be changed in the image of Christ, through faith, for those who believe him and want to walk after the Spirit.

If love is the fulfillment of the law, we knew which law it is; the Ten Commandments. Therefore, how could love fulfill only 9 laws if we do not include the 4th law?

If Adam & Eve never sinned and we all live in Eden, do you think there is no Sabbath rest there? If no, why did God made it aside and blessed it as a day of remembrance of creation? What is His purpose? Would this day stand for nothing?

But if it is kept and observed, do you think it will be observe as according to the 4th commandment written on stone? No! For the Ten Commandments does not exist.

Then, how we observe that day in Eden? It would be observed the same as it must be observed now, without the do and the don’ts but as a natural expression of our love.

I think that when love ruled our hearts, it would expressed it selves in deeds that is in harmony with the law (Galatians 5:22, 23), now we could say that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4). Does this exclude the Sabbath keeping as according to the 4th commandment? I believe no, otherwise the fulfillment is incomplete.

In fact the whole Ten Commandments, when we come under it, coming under the obligation to keep and obey as the Jews were instructed (Leviticus 18:4,5), would only be a means of condemnation (2 Corinthians 3:6-9), but when it serve as: “If you love me, keep My commandments”, it is no longer an obligation but an expression.

So, I think, observing the Sabbath day is not a symbol of righteousness by works when we observe it out of love; for love is the fulfillment of the law, which must include observing the Sabbath day. Excluding it would made the fulfillment incomplete.

What do you think?

In His love

James S

James, I agree with you. Refusing to violate the sabbath by keeping it holy out of a heart full of the implanted love of God is no more legalistic than refusing to murder someone because we do not want to get in trouble with the police or because we do not want to misrepresent the love of God to our fellow human beings.