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Mark and close of probation.
#62593
12/13/02 11:07 PM
12/13/02 11:07 PM
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When the law is issued that all must receive the Mark, or else, is that when probation closes?
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62594
12/14/02 03:04 AM
12/14/02 03:04 AM
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My understanding has always been that earth's probation closes with the passage/ratification of the universal (worldwide) death decree. That decree will be similar to the decree signed by King Ahasuerus in the days of Esther permitting the general population the right to kill the Jews on a certain day. In the Great Controversy EGW describes the praying companies in the time of trouble that are surrounded by mobs of people waiting to rush on them and kill them. The mob is waiting for the decree to go into effect, but they are stopped when the saints are glorified. It is at midnight that God's people are delivered (that is, glorified), and most laws go into effect at midnight.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62595
12/14/02 11:10 PM
12/14/02 11:10 PM
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Hi Restin, I have done a web page for close of probation with the chapter in Last Day Events. It is too much to put on here so when you have time you might like to go read it. It will answer alot of questions you might have. I did not know if you had the book Last Day Events or not. If you do it is Chapter 16 and Chapter 15 is one that we need to read and study also. http://www.geocities.com/midnightcry1950/probaton.html
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62596
01/04/03 12:07 AM
01/04/03 12:07 AM
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Avalee, I went to your web site and is very clear and enjoyed reading there. I do have "Last Day Events' and recognized the quotes.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62597
01/04/03 12:17 AM
01/04/03 12:17 AM
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If we know probation has closed at the time of the death decree, and the plagues have started (which also means probation has closed) why are the remnant going through the Time of Jacob's Trouble? Can't they be sure they are right with God just by looking around and seeing that probation has closed and they have made it? Not to be smart, but I have a vivid imagination and wish I might not have to go through such soul agony, as have been there before and dread having to do it again. Can't any of us be sure we have been saved?
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62598
01/04/03 02:15 PM
01/04/03 02:15 PM
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Restin the following quote from the Spirit of Prophesy does not exactly answer your question....I just wanted to add it.... quote: Salvation Day by Day Maranatha Page 236
Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. 1 Cor. 10:12
Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. . . . Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life (James 1:12).
Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. . . . We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall" (1 Cor. 10:12). Our only safety is in constant distrust of self, and dependence on Christ.
There are many who profess Christ, but who never become mature Christians. They admit that man is fallen, that his faculties are weakened, that he is unfitted for moral achievement, but they say that Christ has borne all the burden, all the suffering, all the self-denial, and they are willing to let Him bear it. They say that there is nothing for them to do but to believe; but Christ said, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me" (Matt. 16:24). . . .
We are never to rest in a satisfied condition, and cease to make advancement, saying, "I am saved." When this idea is entertained, the motives for watchfulness, for prayer, for earnest endeavor to press onward to higher attainments, cease to exist. No sanctified tongue will be found uttering these words till Christ shall come, and we enter in through the gates into the city of God. Then, with the utmost propriety, we may give glory to God and to the Lamb for eternal deliverance.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62599
01/04/03 02:26 PM
01/04/03 02:26 PM
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I am posting these next to chapters in Maranatha about Jacob's Time of Trouble. I know we have all read them at one time or another but it does not hurt to read them over and over. quote: The Time of Jacob's Trouble Maranatha Page 272
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. Jer. 30:7
I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus' work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob's trouble.
As Satan influenced Esau to march against Jacob, so he will stir up the wicked to destroy God's people in the time of trouble. And as he accused Jacob, he will urge his accusations against the people of God. He numbers the world as his subjects; but the little company who keep the commandments of God are resisting his supremacy. If he could blot them from the earth, his triumph would be complete. He sees that holy angels are guarding them, and he infers that their sins have been pardoned; but he does not know that their cases have been decided in the sanctuary above. He has an accurate knowledge of the sins which he has tempted them to commit, and he presents these before God in the most exaggerated light, representing this people to be just as deserving as himself of exclusion from the favor of God. He declares that the Lord cannot in justice forgive their sins and yet destroy him and his angels. He claims them as his prey and demands that they be given into his hands to destroy.
As Satan accuses the people of God on account of their sins, the Lord permits him to try them to the uttermost. Their confidence in God, their faith and firmness, will be severely tested. As they review the past, their hopes sink; for in their whole lives they can see little good. They are fully conscious of their weakness and unworthiness. Satan endeavors to terrify them with the thought that their cases are hopeless, that the stain of their defilement will never be washed away. He hopes so to destroy their faith that they will yield to his temptations and turn from their allegiance to God.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62600
01/04/03 02:38 PM
01/04/03 02:38 PM
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quote: Why the Time of Trouble Maranatha Page 273
God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Ps. 46:1
Though God's people will be surrounded by enemies who are bent upon their destruction, yet the anguish which they suffer is not a dread of persecution for the truth's sake; they fear that every sin has not been repented of, and that through some fault in themselves they will fail to realize the fulfillment of the Saviour's promise: I "will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world." Revelation 3:10. If they could have the assurance of pardon they would not shrink from torture or death; but should they prove unworthy, and lose their lives because of their own defects of character, then God's holy name would be reproached.
On every hand they hear the plottings of treason and see the active working of rebellion; and there is aroused within them an intense desire, an earnest yearning of soul, that this great apostasy may be terminated and the wickedness of the wicked may come to an end. But while they plead with God to stay the work of rebellion, it is with a keen sense of self-reproach that they themselves have no more power to resist and urge back the mighty tide of evil. They feel that had they always employed all their ability in the service of Christ, going forward from strength to strength, Satan's forces would have less power to prevail against them.
They afflict their souls before God, pointing to their past repentance of their many sins, and pleading the Saviour's promise: "Let him take hold of my strength, that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me." Isaiah 27:5. Their faith does not fail because their prayers are not immediately answered. Though suffering the keenest anxiety, terror, and distress, they do not cease their intercessions. They lay hold of the strength of God as Jacob laid hold of the Angel; and the language of their souls is: "I will not let thee go, except thou bless me."
The time of trouble is the crucible that is to bring out Christlike characters. It is designed to lead the people of God to renounce Satan and his temptations.
I would guess Restin that your vivid imagination is going to have to go through all this....I myself do not understand it but it is what God says we will have to go through. As long as all our sins are confessed before probaton closes we will be ok...
quote: Jacob's history is also an assurance that God will not cast off those who have been deceived and tempted and betrayed into sin, but who have returned unto Him with true repentance. While Satan seeks to destroy this class, God will send His angels to comfort and protect them in the time of peril. The assaults of Satan are fierce and determined, his delusions are terrible; but the Lord's eye is upon His people, and His ear listens to their cries. Their affliction is great, the flames of the furnace seem about to consume them; but the Refiner will bring them forth as gold tried in the fire. God's love for His children during the period of their severest trial is as strong and tender as in the days of their sunniest prosperity; but it is needful for them to be placed in the furnace of fire; their earthliness must be consumed, that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected. {Mar 274.3}
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62601
05/20/05 11:18 PM
05/20/05 11:18 PM
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Hi guys. This is a old topic, but I think it's worth re-reading.
--\Ren
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62602
05/21/05 07:39 PM
05/21/05 07:39 PM
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Avalee is correct about the chapters in Last Day Events. Here are a few paragraphs that tell us that we do not know when probation will close:
Chap. 16. - The Close of Probation No One Knows When Probation Will Close
God has not revealed to us the time when this message will close or when probation will have an end. Those things that are revealed we shall accept for ourselves and for our children, but let us not seek to know that which has been kept secret in the councils of the Almighty. . . . {LDE 227.1}
Letters have come to me asking me if I have any special light as to the time when probation will close, and I answer that I have only this message to bear, that it is now time to work while the day lasts, for the night cometh in which no man can work.--1SM 191 (1894). {LDE 227.2}
Sunday-Law Enforcement Precedes the Close of Probation
The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes, for it is to be the great test [SEE THE PREVIOUS CHAPTER, WHERE THE GREAT TEST FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD IS SHOWN TO BE SUNDAY-LAW ENFORCEMENT.] for the people of God, by which 228 their eternal destiny will be decided.--2SM 81 (1890). {LDE 227.3}
What is the "image to the beast"? and how is it to be formed? The image is made by the two-horned beast, and is an image to the beast. It is also called an image of the beast. [THE TWO-HORNED BEAST OF REVELATION 13:11-17 MAKES AN IMAGE TO THE BEAST PORTRAYED IN REVELATION 13:1-10.] Then to learn what the image is like and how it is to be formed, we must study the characteristics of the beast itself--the papacy. {LDE 228.1}
When the early church became corrupted by departing from the simplicity of the gospel and accepting heathen rites and customs, she lost the Spirit and power of God; and in order to control the consciences of the people, she sought the support of the secular power. The result was the papacy, a church that controlled the power of the state, and employed it to further her own ends, especially for the punishment of "heresy." In order for the United States to form an image of the beast, the religious power must so control the civil government that the authority of the state will also be employed by the church to accomplish her own ends. . . . {LDE 228.2}
The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas.--GC 443, 445 (1911). {LDE 228.3}
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62603
05/22/05 10:55 AM
05/22/05 10:55 AM
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"The "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate Protestantism which will be developed when the Protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas."--GC 443, 445 (1911). {LDE 228.3}
Notice it is your local Baptist, "Community Christian Church", Fellowship Family Churches that will be developed, not obvious Catholic churches.
"Image", means carbon copy, or in current jargon, clone.
So when did the early church first "seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas." in history?
What was the politcal and economic atmosphere at that time?
If answered correctly, we can see what the future will be like.
I think I have found some interesting clues....
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62604
05/22/05 05:19 PM
05/22/05 05:19 PM
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Posts: 275
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quote: So when did the early church first "seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas." in history?
What was the politcal and economic atmosphere at that time?
If answered correctly, we can see what the future will be like. [/QB]
Excellent point Phil.
My history is not that good, but I can recall several time periods when church & state were closely united...
(1) The time of Constantine (2) The Dark Ages (3) Pre-renaissance Europe
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62605
05/22/05 06:12 PM
05/22/05 06:12 PM
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(4) 19th century europe (5) todays china (6) would the puritan english american colonies count?
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62606
05/22/05 08:41 PM
05/22/05 08:41 PM
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quote: Originally posted by Phil N. D'blanc: Notice it is your local Baptist, "Community Christian Church", Fellowship Family Churches that will be developed, not obvious Catholic churches.
Isnt this a bit too much a blanket statement? What about the local Baptist Community Christian Church where Gods sons and daughters are in majority?
/Thomas
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62607
05/23/05 03:46 AM
05/23/05 03:46 AM
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Thomas No,it is not a blanket statement. We must consider every word of the SOP statement: "...apostate Protestantism..." in those churches, not fully Protestant believers, will forge a link with the government to enforce their doctrines. Saints never force anyone, state law or not. Sure, there are saints in every church, but they have never been the majority, at least in God's eyes. And they never will be the majority until He has separated the sheep from the goats forever.
Let's examine the time periods mentioned:
(1) The time of Constantine...{Ahhh!! There is the parent of the trouble!}
(2) The Dark Ages....{This was simply the maturing of the evil seeds sown in under Constantine and the clerics union. The primary nation was called the "Holy Roman Empire", but was centered in Germany)
(3) Pre-renaissance Europe...(Is this not a name for the last part of the Dark Ages,razorren? A continuation of the same Constantinian union of church and state.)
(4) 19th century Europe...(The churches did not have absolute rule in Europe's politics after the French Revolution. Think of Napoleon, Garibaldi,Bismark, Kulturkampf, the brewing of Marxism, anarchism, etc.. Not a docile, church centered Europe any longer)
(5) todays China... (Christianity has no influence in Chinese politics. The State controls the activities of all churches and religions.)
(6) Puritan English American Colonies...(Yes! A perfect example, Thomas and one that is a direct Protestant attempt to build a civilization unknowingly on Constantine's model, one which brought on the Dark ages in Europe. Thank God it failed in America, although attempts are right now being made to raise this from the dead.
It will be the Church in America that will control the State, not the State the Church: THAT is the carbon copy of the Papal Beast of the 1260 years of papal rule!
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62608
05/23/05 08:18 AM
05/23/05 08:18 AM
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Yes, I guess my examples 4 and 5 where the state controlling the church, or atleast the official legal church, and not the other way around.
/Thomas
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62609
05/24/05 01:59 AM
05/24/05 01:59 AM
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Getting backto confessing all sins at the time of Jacob's trouble, my dear Avalee, there is not much hope for me who have been into so much mischief there's no way to remember it all! Born with more energy and daring than one person should ever have charge of, I have done almost everything, and more than once, except actually kill somebody outright. I'm sure almost everything I've done has been something Bad, to some degree or other.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62610
05/24/05 03:53 AM
05/24/05 03:53 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Phil N. D'blanc: Thomas Let's examine the time periods mentioned:
(3) Pre-renaissance Europe...(Is this not a name for the last part of the Dark Ages,razorren? A continuation of the same Constantinian union of church and state.)
Actually Phil, I was thinking of the time when the English Kings ruled and there clashes with the Popes over one thing or the other. But I did'nt know how to categorize this time period.
--Ren
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
#62611
05/29/05 06:40 PM
05/29/05 06:40 PM
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Restin, this is when you ask the Holy Spirit to bring each unconfessed sin to your remembrance so you can confess them... and He will!! He's done/doing this for me. God bless! i'll be praying for you.
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Re: Mark and close of probation.
[Re: razorren]
#194393
08/18/21 08:10 PM
08/18/21 08:10 PM
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Hi guys. This is a old topic, but I think it's worth re-reading.
--\Ren Very true..
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