In looking at how Mrs white uses "human instrementalities" in T M 509

The continued communication of the Holy Spirit to the church is represented by the prophet Zechariah under another figure, which contains a wonderful lesson of encouragement for us. The prophet says: "The angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, and said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: and two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? . . . Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts. . . . And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? . . . Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." {TM 509.1}
From the two olive trees, the golden oil was emptied through golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary. So from the holy ones that stand in God's presence, His Spirit is imparted to human instrumentalities that are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate light and power to God's people. It is to receive blessing for us that they stand in God's presence. As the olive trees empty themselves into the golden pipes, so the heavenly messengers seek to communicate all that they receive from God. The whole heavenly treasure awaits our demand and reception; and as we receive the blessing, we in our turn are to impart it. Thus it is that the holy lamps are fed, and the church becomes a light bearer in the world. {TM 510.1}

Mrs,White points to the Olive trees as the anointed one, the golden pipes as Human instrumentalites, the bowl contains the oil that is sent through the tubes (ministry) to thelamps which are typified as the church. Rev. 1:20

It seems the Spirit of Interpretation of the Scriptures is the work of these Human instrumentalities, (tm510) and it is through them that Present truth is found. She also states that it was this Golden bowl vision of Zech. 4 that the five wise virgins got their oil.

11-14 (Matt. 25:1-13). Oil Purifies the Soul.--We all need to study as never before the parable of the ten virgins. Five of them were wise, and five were foolish. The wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. This is the holy oil represented in Zechariah [Zech. 4:11-14 quoted]. This representation is of the highest consequence to those who claim to know the truth. But if we do not practise the truth, we have not received the holy oil, which the two golden pipes empty out of themselves. The oil is received into vessels prepared for the oil. It is the Holy Spirit in the heart which works by love and purifies the soul. . . . {4BC 1179.6}

What is this Oil?

Oil Conveyed Through Messages.--[Zech. 4:1-3, 11-14 quoted.] By the holy beings surrounding His throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth. The golden oil represents the grace with which God keeps the lamps of believers supplied. Were it not that this holy oil is poured from heaven in the messages of God's Spirit, the agencies of evil would have entire control over men. God is dishonored when we do not receive the communications that He sends us. Thus we refuse the golden oil which He would pour into our souls to be communicated to those in darkness (RH Feb. 3, 1903). {4BC 1179.8}

"From the two olive trees the golden oil was emptied through the golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick, and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary. So from the holy ones that stand in God's presence His Spirit is imparted to the human instrumentalities who are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate to God's people that heavenly grace which alone can make His word a lamp to the feet and a light to the path. "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." Zech. 4:6. {COL 408.1}

It would seem that another Angel being sent with a message is another consecrated human instrementality, as was the prophets, etc. and Ellen G. White.

Especially since Scripture is not of private interpretation, furth I would imagine that such a prophet would not be acceptable as were the ancients who were killed because the message they bore was so strong in their generations.

Whitlie

Bumping thread for continued use.

/Thomas

Responding to the original question, the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus, so if we testify of Jesus we have the spirit of prophesy. So in a sense, whenever we tell the truth about Christ, it could be said we have the spirit of prophesy. OTOH as an identifying mark of the remnant church, it is understood to have been specifically fulfilled in the ministry of Ellen White, which understanding I believe is correct.

Tom

I think your first answere is the most correct one considdering what I can see in the bibel about it.

/Thomas

What is the difference between prophesy and prophecy?

What is the difference between the testimony of Jesus and the spirit of prophecy?

Revelation
12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

"Prophesy" has an "s" whereas "prophecy" has a "c" (the first spelling is more creative).

The terms "spirit of prophecy" and "testimony of Jesus" are used interchangeably, as far as I'm aware. So they describe the same thing.

"Prophecy" means to promulgate truth. "Spirit" has many different meanings. I think hear it means "heart", so one could say, "the heart of prophecy" is the "testimony of Jesus", and the meaning would not be changed. I think what "testimony of Jesus" means is self-evident.

Mike wrote

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Thomas, as to my question to you - thank you for answering it. Your previous posts seem to imply that are times when Sister White contradicts the Bible. If I've misunderstood your position please set the record straight. Do you know of any instances where she does contradict the Bible? In what way is her prophetic gift less biblical or authoritative than John's?

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Ellen contradicting the bible, I dont know as I havent read everything, or even very much of what she has written. However people at times make quotes that make it appear as if she contradicted the bible. But that has already been commented on in the other thread.
I have a question for you, what was the purpose of Ellens ministry and what was the purpose of Johns? Does Revelation say anything about its purpose? Does Ellen write anything about her calling? These questions answered will make it possible to give a more proper answere to your last question.

/Thomas

Tom, actually "prophesy" is a verb. It denotes proclaiming the truth about prophecy (noun). And, I agree that the "spirit" of prophecy includes having a heart or passion for sharing the prophecies already recorded in the Bible. But, I think it has more to do with God giving a prophet new visions and dreams.

The difference between "having" the testimony of Jesus Christ and "having" the spirit of prophecy is, I believe, the difference between manifesting the character of Jesus and receiving dreams and visions from Jesus to share with others.

Do you see what I mean?

On page one of this thread I posted the following:

quote:

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posted October 05, 2003 05:56 PM

But it would seem from the examples posted above that the phrase "the spirit of prophecy" is an experience rather than an office, a verb (action word) rather than a noun (person, place or thing), a process rather than a product.

In other words, the spirit or mind of a prophet is what enables him to receive a prophecy. Notice the different spellings - prophecy vs. prophesy. Prophecy is the message itself whereas prophesy is proclaiming it. Anybody with the gift to teach or preach can prophesy, but only those with the spirit or gift of prophecy can receive a prophecy.

So, is Sister White the only person with the spirit of prophecy? Well, certainly she is the only person God has used extinsively since John the Revelator. There have no doubt been people who have experienced the spirit of prophecy on a limited or localized scale, but Sister White seems to be the lsat person God has used in wide scale fashion. I suspect though that there will be more people gifted with the spirit of prophecy before Jesus returns.

What do you think?

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Mike:Tom, actually "prophesy" is a verb. It denotes proclaiming the truth about prophecy (noun). And, I agree that the "spirit" of prophecy includes having a heart or passion for sharing the prophecies already recorded in the Bible. But, I think it has more to do with God giving a prophet new visions and dreams.

Tom:I never noticed the verb/noun thing. No wonder I was confused!

Prophesy has a broader meaning than receiving dreams or visions. I understand its primary meaning to be to promulgate truth. One can be a prophet without receiving dreams for visions. For example, EGW refered to Waggoner and Jones as "prophets", although they did not have the prophetic office she had, and as far as we know did not receive any dreams or visions.

Mike:The difference between "having" the testimony of Jesus Christ and "having" the spirit of prophecy is, I believe, the difference between manifesting the character of Jesus and receiving dreams and visions from Jesus to share with others.

Tom:Again, there's no necessity to receive dreams and visions to be a prophet, in the broad sense of the term. In the strict sense of the word, I agree with you. Viewing the text in terms of an identification of the remenant church, I agree with you too.

Here's something Clarke says, which is kind of interesting:

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the spirit of prophecy is a general testimony concerning Jesus, for he is the scope and design of the whole Scripture; to him gave all the prophets witness. Take Jesus, his grace, Spirit, and religion out of the Bible, and it has neither scope, design, object, nor end.

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from http://www.godrules.net/library/clarke/clarkerev19.htm