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Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69571
05/27/03 01:21 AM
05/27/03 01:21 AM
Wendy F  Offline
Veteran Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 960
USA
quote:
Everybody knows that the passing of time on earth is the result of the earth's rotation, not the sun's rotation. Yet, Joshua requested that the sun stand still. This is clearly due to lack of understanding of how the solar system operated. If we insist that the Bible is 100% accurate we find ourselves in the untenable position of claiming that the supreme intelligence who created the universe does not know how it works.
So Darius. Do you have scientific explanations to explain away all of the miracles in the Bible? Or just a few? Did Jesus perform miracles, or just sleight of hand?

Wendy [Reading]

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69572
05/27/03 01:26 AM
05/27/03 01:26 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy:
It doesn't make the event any less true. Secondly, You must understand that old testament people were very ignorant compared to our knowledge and God unsterstood that. So when Joshua asked that the sun stand still, God didn't say no because he didn't asked the right question. God said yes because He knew of Joshuas ignorance. This,like the sunrise and sunset really is just a part of semantics. As God does, the learned should wink at the ignorant.

Why is it that whenever someone points to clear discrepancies that God allowed to be in the Bible Christians immediately jump to the conclusion that the individual is trying to weaken the faith of others in the Bible? Why are we of such little faith that we are more inclined to deny what we know to be true in order to bolster a cherished view? I don't care if you could prove the Bible were completely false today, it would not have any effect on the fact of God's existence. When it was proven that Irving's (I think it was) Hitler diaries were a forgery no one concluded from that fact that Hitler did not exist. If God had intended to give us a book would He have allowed it to come to us the way it did. The Bible began its life as oral history and thousands of years passed before it was reduced to writing. Do you really wish to believe that the pre-biblical patriarchs did not have the word of God? Then we have Paul admitting that he did not always have a word from God. Can we seriously claim that God told Paul to write, "Hey, I have nothing from God on this, this is my opinion?" Finally, "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." Where does this text claim that the Holy Bible is the only book that qualifies to be scripture, or that the scriptures are the only books that are given by inspiration from God. If we are to rightly divide the word of truth we need to admit where have embellished what has been written.

If anyone cares, without knowing me personally, to accuse me of attacking the Bible (and you have NOT done that Wendy), then they are free to go ahead and join the accuser of the brethren.

Let me admit, that much of this post is really a reaction of what I have experience before rather than what has actually happened in this thread, but I thought it important to express these ideas here.

I do not have faith in the Bible; I have faith in Jehovah.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69573
05/27/03 01:31 AM
05/27/03 01:31 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Wendy:
So Darius. Do you have scientific explanations to explain away all of the miracles in the Bible? Or just a few? Did Jesus perform miracles, or just sleight of hand?

They were only miracles to humans. To God they were what He did everyday. Only God understands all the laws of the universe. Take the miracle at Cana. Why is it a miracle for God to do in a second what He makes the vine do in a few months? I do not understand this tendency to reduce God to a magician. You speak of scientific explanations as if man is the inventor of science. God is the one who put science into motion, or have we all forgotten that.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69574
05/27/03 01:33 AM
05/27/03 01:33 AM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:

If God said it, that settles it.

This topic, this forum is not about tearing down the Bible but building it up, therefore, let us focus our posts and topics in this forum in that direction.

I hope the goal of this forum is to elevate the God of the universe. Books are human productions, and the Bible is only a book, though one with a special message about God.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69575
05/27/03 12:04 PM
05/27/03 12:04 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

quote:
Originally posted by Daryl Fawcett:
Does science give evidence of the existence of God? Does science also prove that what is in the Bible is true?

ABSOLUTELY! There is a ton of material produced nowadays by creation scientists that supports the FACT that a Creator exists and there is no other way this Universe got here, nor was it possible for life to "evolve" by itself and form itself into massively complex cells, etc.!

It seems that the evidence of "science" can put itself into two categories -- one category is where the evidence is just generic with no noticable link to proving that God exists (like being able to build an automoble or a refridgerator using "scientific principles"), and the second category is when the scientific evidence leads a person to the one and only possible conclusion that GOD EXISTS and He is the ONLY possible answer to our existence!

Just before it all ends, God will have shared enough "scientific evidence" that no human being on this planet will be able to say that God did not show them enough evidence to believe in a Creator God!

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69576
05/27/03 01:02 PM
05/27/03 01:02 PM
R
Ron Henderson  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2
Saint John, NB Canada
Hi, Folks,

I wish I had more time to make replies. But let me take this opportunity to say something since this touches an area I am working on.

The question we need to ask is whether science and the Bible are in disagreement, not from a literary, coloquial manner, but from a scientific perspective? When we weed out all literary expressions like sunset, Jacob's understanding of how animals became speckled, etc., we find that there is no contradiction between the Bible's message to humanity and science. The Bible is not a book on science. It has to deal with God's plan of redemption primarily. I would say every scientist today speaks of the "sunset" today in either talks, or in writing. Does this make them unscientific?

Because the Bible writers use the expression sunset (like us today), does this make the Bible unscientific? We must first understand how to separate the writers' views from the overal Biblical message. The onus would be on people to show clearly where the Bible contradicts facts of science if these people think that the Bible contradicts science. After that we must next study these apparent contradictions, if any, to see whether it's a matter of faulty interpretation or actual contradiction.

These are just a few thoughts. By the way, anyone knows when the sun sets this afternoon?!Take care.

Ron.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69577
05/28/03 02:00 AM
05/28/03 02:00 AM
S
Sandra P  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9
Pigeon Forge, Tennessee, USA
At the risk of a lot of negative feed-back, I'll refer people to the Pinkoski and the Wyatt Museum Wyatt Museum web sites -- these sites offer archaeological evidences gathered to substantiate various discoveries including the cities of the plain (i.e., Sodom & Gomorrah), the Red Sea crossing site, the location of Mount Sinai (in Arabia), etc. The Wyatt Museum web site shows the latest excavation and scientific data gathered to verify the discoveries.

Recently the discoveries have been promoted on Prophecy in the News television show and have been featured on Dateline NBC. There have been some scientists who have taken a hard look at the evidences and agree that there is enough there to take the discoveries seriously.

[Since I've had many negative experiences putting out the above information I would like to close with the following: It would not be appropriate to clutter this thread with denegrating remarks about the man whose field work is featured on the web sites. For those kinds of remarks, I suggest you start another thread.]

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69578
05/28/03 02:33 AM
05/28/03 02:33 AM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
Sandra:

I have no intention of getting into a discussion of Ron Wayatt, his work, and what he has left the world after his death. Over the years that this discussion has gone on, I have largely kept out of it.

However, you raised the issue of Ron, his work and ministry. You did so in a general area of MSDAOL that is open to the general public. You did so in an area deveoted to scientific evildence for the Bible.

As you have done this, it is very appropriate for others to comment on their perception of whether or not Ron Wyatt's work provides scientific evidence to support the Bible. That is appropriate, and it is appropriate to do so in this thread.

Again, I have largely stayed out of this ongoing (for years) discussion. But, I will simply say that there are many who do not believe that Ron Wyatt has been able to provide secientific evidence to support the Bible. It is appropriate for me to say that as you has stated that there are those who beleive that he has provided scientific evidence to support the Bible (you mentioned those who support him).

Once you make your comment, it is then appropriate to state the other view. That is only fair, and informative to those posting here who may not be aquainted with the issues.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69579
05/27/03 03:50 PM
05/27/03 03:50 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

Gregory, it's true that there are both supporters and critics of Ron Wyatt's work -- but to a large degree the critics have not completely researched Ron's material. This thread is for the discussion of "scientific proof" for the Bible, and that is exactly what the Swedish scientist Lennart Moller has done regarding his evaluation of Ron's discoveries! Approximately 2 years ago Lennart Moller published a 320-page hardcover book entitled "THE EXODUS CASE" wherein he closely investigated and tested Ron's claims -- Lennart Moller is a Christian who works at the Karolinska Institute at the Medical University of Stockholm, and the only reason that his book was printed is that all of Ron Wyatt's claims HAVE been verified by scientific testing and logical exogesis of the Bible!

Lennart Moller has also prepared a video entitled "THE EXODUS REVEALED" wherein he has used an underwater sub camera to film the coral-covered chariot wheels in the Gulf of Aqaba, and this video was produced by the CAMPUS CRUSADE FOR CHRIST organization and has been promoted by several ministries including THE FRIENDS OF ISRAEL GOSPEL MINISTRY and the PROPHECY IN THE NEWS television ministry -- so the current fact of the matter is that Ron Wyatt's discoveries ARE being investigated by diligent and intelligent scientists and believeres and these people are seeing Ron's material as being a total blessing!

I myself worked with Ron for 10 years and I managed his 1st museum that was located in Gatlinburg Tennessee from 1994-1996 -- and I have personally discussed this material with thousands of people, and my website contains an overview of the evidence for the discoveries and the latest updates, etc.

Re: Scientific Evidence & The Bible #69580
05/27/03 05:14 PM
05/27/03 05:14 PM
G
Gregory  Offline
SDA
Chaplain

Active Member 2022
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,364
USA
Jim:

I have personally spent much time in reading websites favorable to Ron Wyatt. As I said, I have said very litle as to what I think.

My point is that when you and your wife make statement here in reard to Ron's discoveries scientifically supporting the Bible, it is only fair to allow others to challenge this. It is only fair to allow others to challenge this in the same thread where you have made those statements.

I do not say this because I want a forum where I can post my opinion. If I had wanted to do that, I would have done it a long time ago. I prefer to let you and your opponents "Duke it out", and I do not mean that in a critical way.

I personally think that you are articulate enough that you can state your position well. I think the same for many of those who oppose your conclusions. My comments are not generally needed as something that would throw additional light on the subject, and has not generally been said by others.

But, I do think that when you come to this thread, and make your comments, you can expect others to challenge you. It is only fair to allow them to psot their challenges in the same thread where you have made your comments. It is not fair to expect them to go to another thread.

That is the focus of my comment. My focus is not whether or not Ron Wayatt was correct in his claims.

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