I always thought the Gospel was that God sent His only Son to die for us, take away our sins, and save all who come to believe in Christ, raised Him again on the 3rd day, and He is interceding for on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary. Any thoughts?
God Bless,
Will

The Gospel literally means the good news. The good news will not end until the work is finished (when Jesus returns).

To say that the Gospel was only the life death and salvation of Jesus, and then we are saying that there is no new light and the spirit does not ever present new truth to anyone.

The Good News is that Christ died for our sins, and we are washed clean in His blood, and He is coming soon. Thats good news indeed!
I am confused about the second portion of your statement Dave. No one here is saying that gifts have stopped. Can you expand a it on that.
God Bless,
Will

Baptism: the realm of individual and God.

This is where one dies to self and is born of God, unto God to newness of life. No one else enters and can enter this place. This is what salvation is about.

Rom 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Fellowship: the realm of the church in God.

This is where those that have been born of God have fellowship as family; brothers and sisters of the same father. This is fellowship of spirit. This is where God works to edify the church. It is a vibrant growing fellowship in spirit and in truth. This is where the individual gifts of the spirit are a blessing to the church. This is where we can minister one to another in grace. This is where the fruits of the spirit are brought forth. Here fellowship is of like spirit. As the proverb: birds of a feather flock together. Thus those which are not of same spirit will naturally not have fellowship. No one here lords it over others; they can only minister. This is the church.

1Jo 1:1-4 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Membership: the realm of the corporation.

This came into existence for the sole reason of ‘money’. By its very nature it is on the level of the carnal. It became desirable as a result of distrust. It came in to fill that which was lacking in fellowship of spirit. So the carnal replaced the spiritual. Here is where authority is espoused. Here is where the right to have say in carpet colors, bench padding, bricks and mortar, programs and self-image projection. Here is where we give and take authority to tell others what to do. Here is where bylaws are devised to regulate who may have say and what. This is where ‘we’ decide what truth is. By their very nature bylaws are not spiritual, but technical. This is where we judge and anathema those we do not wish to be associated with. Here in the name of God ...

At first there is very little or no definition of doctrines here, it is started as a vehicle for the fellowship to do things. This however results in a declension of fellowship in lieu of membership activity. As time progresses and by the nature of things inherent in membership, and those who want to have say; the increase of definition of doctrines occurs while fellowship of spirit declines. In time it takes over most if not all of the fellowship and the grace of God ceases to have impact. Programs take the place of God’s work in and through us. Lording over others takes the place of ministering. Ministry becomes self-serving. Doctrines get more and more defined until they encroach upon baptism/conversion and the cycle is completed where the corporation, through its set of doctrines in bylaws, takes the place of God, and the church as it was known ceases to be. All that is left is corporation and membership which uses the name of God for its self-serving purposes.

Will:

The good news has not ended yet. There is always more to add to it untill Jesus comes. If EGW was a true messenger of God, she is part of that good news, yes?

John:

Are you sugesting that we should not have membership? Isn't membership how we can determin who can serve in the church? If we do away with that, would that not be like Paul appointing pagans as elders in the churches? I would think the purpos of membership is to show who is and who is not elagable to lead in the church of God. Even Acts talk about membership in the early church.

This sounds like we should be a united Christian body. Believe it or not, the GC has taken steps towars that, and I find it to be most dangerous. Other churches would say that the 7th day sabbath is a doctorin. Is doctorin truly unimportant? If it is, we could easyaly become Catholics, Baptists, or even JW's.

I am not understanding what you are saying Dave
Here is what I understood, that by you saying that EGW is part of the good news is making her out to be the Gospel itself.
She did have a message to give to the remnant church, and one of them was basically to read your Bibles more, and the other was not to put me on par with the Bible, and that she uplifted Christ at all times, and this I have read. A good example is the chapter in GC titled "Scripture as a safeguard". Well I am thinking I have misunderstood your statement, but do let me know if I did or did not.
God Bless & Happy Sabbath,
Will

Will, Ellen White had a *message* that was a part of the good news. Present truth. That doesn't make *her* part of the good news. Her *message* was good news.

More particularly, her main message had to do with the ending of the 2300-day prophecy of Daniel 8:14. God raised her up at the end of that time period, just like He did with other prophets at the endpoints of other time prophecies. Her ministry had mainly to do with the events to take place at the end of that time prophecy, namely the commencement of the judgment in heaven. That doesn't make her part of the good news. It makes her message part of the good news; present truth for our times.

Similarly, John the Baptist had a message for his present time, in connection with the end of the time period given in Daniel 9:24-27. At the end of that time period Messiah was to come, and John was sent to give that message. This didn't make John part of the good news; but his present truth *message* for those living in that time was part of the good news. John didn't write any Bible canon either, but His message was every bit as authoritative as anything written in the Bible, since it came from God.

So it is with Ellen White. A prophet is a prophet, is a prophet. The fact that she said her writings aren't on a par with the Bible doesn't lessen her inspiration or authority one bit. The Bible was written for all men in all ages. Her writings were written for us, the people living in the last days right before Jesus comes again. Her message was present truth for the end times, the Bible is truth for all ages. But both sets of writings were equally inspired, by the same Holy Spirit. Rejecting the SOP is just as much a rebellion against God as is rejecting the Bible.

I think we have become very bashful about Ellen White's role in the forming of the Adventist Church, mainly because we are embarrassed by what other denominations say about it. I think it is a great exageration to say that many Adventists put her writings above the Bible. No doubt there are some who do this, but just because a persons believes she was directed of God it doesn't necessarily follow that she, or her writings, are being placed above the Scriptures. We have to decide whether we believe her writings come from God or not. If they didn't, then we are wasting our time being members of this church, and we need to look elsewhere for present truth. If they did, then why are we so eager to downplay them and distance ourselves from them? If we believe she wrote as God directed her, then aren't we showing disrespect to God if we try to dismiss them?

I knew a man who quoted nothing but Paul, and mostly Romans. There was no balance to the man. She said her writings were the lesser light - the Bible has many authors, she was just one. If we just read SOP and little or no Bible (and there are people who do that) we have missed out on the majority of God's Word to us, and our balance will be totally off. Everything we need for salvation is found in the Bible, and if we can read it without prejudice we have a clear picture of God. But through ages of misuse and neglect of the Scriptures, man had come to the point where he couldn't read the Bible without being blinded by the prejudice of erroneous interpretations. God's purpose in the SOP message was to remove the prejudice and let the light shine through again.

If God did indeed give Ellen White the messages for us, we had better listen.

Jan that was a most excellent post to read on a Sabbath morning. Thanks. (Can we clap?)

Redfog

The point to think about is why we are here.

I trust that it does not take much to realize that unless the death and resurrection of Christ takes place in the individual, unless that faith of Christ is established, the rest becomes meaningless. So if there is any truth and ministry it needs to serve for this purpose and to this end. When the transaction of baptism starts getting used for other ends we have lost bearings.

Messages: Present day truth!
Elijah had a message for his time. John the Baptists had a message for his time. Huss, Luther, Jerome, Wycliffe had a message in their time. Miller had a message in his time. EW had a message in her time. Jones & Waggoner had a message in their time. When the message fails to do its work in the heart of the listener, to make effective the purpose of the gospel, yet is formed into a doctrine; then a new message is needed.

None of these messages are really new. They are simply fresh in their presentation in such a way as to cut across the self-complacency or delusion of the time, to rouse to reality and the need of the transaction of the gospel. The gospel itself never changes. It is the call of God to salvation from sin.