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Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7258
03/08/06 04:48 PM
03/08/06 04:48 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
You have failed to produce one statement where she quite definitely says "faith alone (or, only)" in regards to salvation.
This is true. I produced two. The second one says, "You will then understand that justification will come alone through faith in Christ..." (1SM 330)

I can look for more if you wish. I also produced quite a number of Scripture references, including this one:

quote:
4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Here Paul uses the expression "righteousness without works" which, if it doesn't mean rightouesness is "faith alone" what does it mean?

On the one hand, you say you are agreeing with me, yet you keep arguing against something. What are you arguing against?

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7259
03/08/06 05:10 PM
03/08/06 05:10 PM
J
Jeff  Offline
Supporting Member 2007
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 231
Mississippi, USA
quote:
If the Holy Spirit did not say it, why should we? Who are we to say, "I know I correctly understand faith to include (good works, obedience, etc) so therefore I can state we are saved by faith alone," when the Bible never says that. Semantics? Not necessarily, maybe the Holy Spirit knows better than we that people are more likely to confuse the issue than we would think.
This argument makes no sense. Are we now limited in our speech to words translated from the original inspired text to English? The logical conclusion of what you’re saying seems to be so.

Jeff

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7260
03/08/06 07:21 PM
03/08/06 07:21 PM
B
Bill Wennell  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Augusta, KY
I really don't want to go back on my word of not posting here, but I remembered a letter I had from the EGW Estate on this matter and thought I should end on it.

It should be stated as well that a lot of this may depend on one's background. My first SDA pastor believed in "faith alone", or should I call it "justification alone". He also preached that Jesus could not die for your sins, quoting Ezekiel 18:20, "The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither the father bear the iniquity of the son" as his source. By the way, he is still a SDA pastor and has been promoted to a multi-church district. Being censored out of that church, I went to another where, guess what? The subject of "faith alone" was again raised. This was the subject of the following letters (in April 2003), but the matter doesn't stop there. The pastor of the church where I was an elder until the end of 2005 told me right before I left what his views of salvation were. Guess what? "Faith alone" citing Acts 16:31, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" as his summation of the whole Bible, no obedience required!

So forgive me if your sterile environments leave you with nothing to do but post on nice cushy forums were errors are nowhere to be found, the church is running fine, and we can call things whatever we want, since everyone is on the same sheet of music. I have been to many churches in 3 different states and I don't believe anyone who tells me they subscribe to the 28 fundamental beliefs, the writings of Ellen White, or any of their definitions until they prove that they use the same terminology, otherwise they end up saying the same things but viewing them in entirely different points of view.

First letter to the Head Deacon from me:

Sorry, I shouldn't have left Sabbath with a misunderstanding of where I stand on how we are saved. The Bible makes it clear that we are saved by grace through a faith that works. So what exactly is "salvation by faith alone?"

Let us first look at the other two views of salvation:

1) Faith AND Works: This is a Jewish and Catholic belief. One is saved by faith and meritorious works that must be earned. The Catholics believe that you are saved by faith and that you must perform meritorious deeds such as viewing the relics of saints, confession to a priesthood, pilgrimages, etc. (Legalism)

2) Faith alone: Evangelical Christianity follows the beliefs of Martin Luther when he said "Sola fe" (Faith alone!). While Martin Luther was a great man in an era of spiritual darkness, he swung the pendulum of Catholic faith and works in the totally opposite direction too far. Martin Luther also quoted "Sola Scriptura" (The Bible and the Bible only!). However, he denied the inspiration of the books of Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation. Because he rejected the book of James, which he called an "epistle of straw," he failed to grasp the Biblical concept of a faith THAT works. Believing that the works Paul spoke of included ALL works, Luther disregarded any works of man has being part of his salvation regardless of it's being the cause or fruit of salvation. (Liberalism)

So what is salvation by "faith alone?" When Ellen White uses the term "faith alone (or only)" she is contrasting faith AND works, a meritorious view of working oneself to heaven. This is evidenced in the book Steps to Christ where she writes:

"There are two errors against which the children of God--particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace--especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin. It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy. {SC 59.4}
The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption." {SC 60.1}

Faith and belief, in the New Testament are translated from the same Greek word, and therefore "to have faith" or "to believe" have the same meaning. Now the bible tells us explicitly that "Faith without works is dead" and there is no such thing as "Sola Fe."

KJV James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

KJV James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

VUL James 2:24 videtis quoniam ex operibus iustificatur homo et non ex fide tantum.

KJV James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

This is not different from what Paul teaches, although his quote from Ephesians chapter 2 is always used by those trying to establish Luther's idea of salvation.

KJV Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Proponents of this view also always leave off the last part of this thought found in verse 10:

KJV Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. {ordained: or, prepared}

Another of Paul's books used to substantiate Luther is Galatians, here again, however, Paul sums up his view of salvation by "faith alone" by stating:

KJV Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

So we see that the Bible presents a uniform picture of a faith that produces works. While we know that the works are the fruit of salvation there are times in the Bible when it appears to make no difference so long as the idea comes across that no one will be saved without works of faith.

KJV John 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

There are also other "requirements" of salvation such as the Lord's Supper, Baptism, Witnessing, etc. These concepts are part of the New Covenant in which we are a part of if we are Christ's. They are our part of this agreement, what we must do. If Noah had refused God's "request" to build an ark, would he have been saved? However, even after building the ark, was God obligated to save Noah? The answer to both is No!

Faith and works are two oars which we must use equally if we {would} press our way up the stream against the current of unbelief. {FLB 115.6}

I was attending a meeting, and a large congregation were present. In my dream you were presenting the subject of faith and the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith. You repeated several times that works amounted to nothing, that there were no conditions. The matter was presented in that light that I knew minds would be confused and would not receive the correct impression in reference to faith and works, and I decided to write to you. You state this matter too strongly. There are conditions to our receiving justification and sanctification, and the righteousness of Christ. I know your meaning, but you leave a wrong impression upon many minds. While good works will not save even one soul, yet it is impossible for even one soul to be saved without good works. God saves us under a law, that we must ask if we would receive, seek if we would find, and knock if we would have the door opened unto us. {FW 111.1}

There are conditions to the fulfillment of God's promises, and prayer can never take the place of duty. "If ye love Me," Christ says, "Keep My commandments." "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:15, 21. Those who bring their petitions to God, claiming His promise while they do not comply with the conditions, insult Jehovah. They bring the name of Christ as their authority for the fulfillment of the promise, but they do not those things that would show faith in Christ and love for Him. {COL 143.2}

Many concede that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the world, but at the same time they hold themselves away from Him, and fail to repent of their sins, fail to accept of Jesus as their personal Saviour. Their faith is simply the assent of the mind and judgment to the truth; but the truth is not brought into the heart, that it might sanctify the soul and transform the character. "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Rom. 8:29, 30). Calling and justification are not one and the same thing. Calling is the drawing of the sinner to Christ, and it is a work wrought by the Holy Spirit upon the heart, convicting of sin, and inviting to repentance. {1SM 389.2}

Sorry if I misrepresented this idea in any way!

His reply:

The opposite and no less dangerous error is that belief in Christ releases men from keeping the law of God; that since by faith alone we become partakers of the grace of Christ, our works have nothing to do with our redemption. {FLB 93.5}

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. . . . Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience. {FLB 93.6}

As Jesus was in human nature, so God means His followers to be. In His strength we are to live the life of purity and nobility which the Saviour lived.

The work of conquering evil is to be done through faith. Those who go into the battlefield will find that they must put on the whole armor of God. The shield of faith will be their defense and will enable them to be more than conquerors. Nothing else will avail but this--faith in the Lord of hosts, and obedience to His orders. Vast armies furnished with every other facility will avail nothing in the last great conflict. Without faith, an angel host could not help. Living faith alone will make them invincible and enable them to stand in the evil day, steadfast, unmovable, holding the beginning of their confidence firm unto the end. {AG 33.4}

The fierce temptation that His own Father had forever left Him caused that piercing cry from the cross: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" {AG 170.4}

In His dying agony, as He yields up His precious life, He has by faith alone to trust in Him whom it has ever been His joy to obey. . . . Denied even bright hope and confidence in the triumph which will be His in the future, He cries with a loud voice: "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Luke 23:46). He is acquainted with the character of His Father, with His justice, His mercy, and His great love, and in submission He drops into His hands. {AG 170.5}

This prompted the following letter to the White Estate from me:

Dear Sirs,

We are having a discussion at our church over the meaning of the phrase "faith only (or alone)" as it is found in the Bible and the writings of Ellen White. These apparently contradicting statements have led to some confusion.

There are places where she writes of "faith alone" as all that is necessary:

The work of conquering evil is to be done through faith. Those who go into the battlefield will find that they must put on the whole armor of God. The shield of faith will be their defense and will enable them to be more than conquerors. Nothing else will avail but this-- faith in the Lord of hosts, and obedience to His orders. Vast armies furnished with every other facility will avail nothing in the last great conflict. Without faith, an angel host could not help. Living faith alone will make them invincible and enable them to stand in the evil day, steadfast, unmovable, holding the beginning of their confidence firm unto the end. {CT 182.4}

There are other places where "faith alone" also incorporates corresponding works:

James writes of Abraham and says, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:21-24). In order for man to be justified by faith, faith must reach a point where it will control the affections and impulses of the heart; and it is by obedience that faith itself is made perfect. {1SM 366.2}

Now trying to be subjective, I see there are three possibilities:

1) We are saved by faith alone regardless of corresponding works either viewed as meritorious or as a "fruit" of that faith.

2) There can be times when faith alone is "alive" regardless of corresponding works either viewed as meritorious or as a "fruit" of that faith.

3) All references to faith alone must be viewed in regard to having corresponding "works" as a fruit of that faith.

I realize that this is a sore spot for most of the church, but was hoping you could shed some light on any references where Mrs. White provides a clear view on why she sometimes writes of having "faith alone" and other times of a "faith that works."

Thank you for your help in this matter.

Their reply:

Dear Brother Wennell,

Thank you for contacting the Ellen G. White Estate. I don't think I know the complete answer to your question. I know that Mrs. White believed that while it is faith in Jesus alone that makes His salvation effective for us, she also believed that a genuine faith would affect the life, making a decided difference in how one lives. Faith alone does not live alone--it results in works.

I did a search in Mrs. White's published writings for the expression "faith alone." There were only 45 occurrences, and many of them were duplicates. This did not seem to be a major theme of Mrs. White's.

I did notice something, though, in the examples you gave. You seemed to be asking about salvation "by faith alone" (this is explicit in your point #1 below), but the first statement from Mrs. White that you quoted did not appear to be addressing that specific issue. Rather, it was addressing the issue of victory, of conquering evil. In this instance she said, "Nothing else will avail but this-- faith in the Lord of hosts, and obedience to His orders." So here she connects faith with obeying Christ's orders, in close proximity to a "faith alone" reference. How would we obtain victory without obeying? "Living faith alone" makes the obedience possible, but faith is not alone, is it? In so saying, we are not ascribing any merit to obedience or giving it partial credit for our salvation. We are only saying that genuine faith will be accompanied by obedience.

So we should note whether Mrs. White is discussing how the sinner is made right with God (salvation) or how we may obtain victory (sanctification). Perhaps it would be more precise to say that we are not saved by faith. Rather, we are saved by grace, through faith (see Eph. 2:8). But faith is the key to victory. The Bible says that "this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (1 Jn 5:4).

You asked not only about Mrs. White's use of the expression "faith alone" but also of "faith only." I did a computer search for this, and the first example that came up was one in which she critiqued those who used this expression (though puncutated a little differently):

"Without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). There are many in the Christian world who claim that all that is necessary to salvation is to have faith; works are nothing, faith is the only essential. But God's Word tells us that faith without works is dead, being alone. Many refuse to obey God's commandments, yet they make a great deal of faith. But faith must have a foundation. {FW 47.1}
God's promises are all made upon conditions. If we do His will, if we walk in truth, then we may ask what we will, and it shall be done unto us. While we earnestly endeavor to be obedient, God will hear our petitions; but He will not bless us in disobedience. If we choose to disobey His commandments, we may cry, "Faith, faith, only have faith," and the response will come back from the sure Word of God, "Faith without works is dead" (James 2:20). Such faith will only be as sounding brass and as a tinkling cymbal. In order to have the benefits of God's grace we must do our part; we must faithfully work and bring forth fruits meet for repentance. {FW 47.2}

We are workers together with God. You are not to sit in indolence, waiting for some great occasion, in order to do a great work for the Master. You are not to neglect the duty that lies directly in your pathway, but you are to improve the little opportunities that open around you. . . . (Faith and Works, p. 47)

This statement comes from the book "Faith and Works." It seems to me that, with your interest in this subject, you might find this book a "must read."

The second statement that came up in that search was a reference to James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

The third connected faith with obedience:

But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth. . . . Instead of releasing man from obedience, it is faith, and faith only, that makes us partakers of the grace of Christ, which enables us to render obedience. {The Faith I Live By, p. 93}

I did not take matters further, but you may wish to do so. I would suggest "Faith and Works," and you may also do searches such as I did, either on a computer with the CD-ROM (the CD-ROMs are being sold at 25% discount at the ABCs, by the way) or using the "Search the Writings" feature on our website, www.WhiteEstate.org.

I hope this is helpful. Thank you for writing, and God bless!

--------
William Fagal, Director
Ellen G. White Estate Branch Office
Andrews University
Berrien Springs, MI 49104-1400 USA
Phone: 269 471-3209
FAX: 269 471-2646
Website: www.WhiteEstate.org or www.egwestate.andrews.edu
E-mail: egw@aubranch.egwestate.andrews.edu

My initial reply to Elder Fagal:

Brother Fagal,
Thank you for your response and in such a timely manner. I really feel sorry to bother you with such a question that I feel is so clear in both the Bible and the SOP. The proponents of "Faith Only" happen to be all the church leaders, the elders, deacons, teachers, etc. They have many accumulated years in the church where I have only five. When I initially brought up James response it was meet with, "If there was a dead body here (in the church) true it is dead but it is still here." In essence, faith without works is "alive." I tried to make the e-mail as non-biased as possible, but I wrote because they are to a degree "respecters of persons" that is, an answer from the BRI or the EGW Estate carries more weight than an idea straight from the Bible without "interpretation." I didn't write the BRI as they have articles addressing the problem and I was expecting them to just refer to these articles (I already gave them the articles without response, maybe they don't like pre-prepared responses). Again, thank you for your time!

(By the way, NO this letter didn't help the matter)

His last reply:

Dear Brother Wennell,

In today's email someone asked me for a certain quote, and when I found it I thought of our correspondence yesterday. I'll share it here with you:

When it is in the heart to obey God, when efforts are put forth to this end, Jesus accepts this disposition and effort as man's best service, and He makes up for the deficiency with His own divine merit. But He will not accept those who claim to have faith in Him, and yet are disloyal to His Father's commandment. We hear a great deal about faith, but we need to hear a great deal more about works. Many are deceiving their own souls by living an easygoing, accommodating, crossless religion. But Jesus says, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."--The Signs of the Times, June 16, 1890. {Selected Messages, book 1, p. 382}

For those interested, here are the links to the Biblical Research Institute regarding this issue:

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/Biblequestions/JustificationWorksHeb%201135.htm

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/justification%20by%20faith.htm

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/Salvation%20by%20Faith.htm

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/documents/index.html

Jeff,
I never said we could not use terminology not found in the Bible (such as the word Trinity, for example), what I am saying is, why are we using terms that are ambiguous, or downright misleading, when both Bible writers and Ellen White purposefully avoided such terms and/or spoke against those who them? The terminolgy of "faith alone" is misleading as the faith part is justification and the works part is sanctification and both are required for salvation. Therefore, it is more appropriate to say we are saved by faith and works, though no one would want to use that terminolgy because of the stigma associated with it. Works are required, but not meritorious. Faith is required, but it is not meritorious either (I have a quote on that one as well). I have the feeling one day you will have to rethink your terminology, or get lumped in with evangelical Christianity, they believe in "faith alone" as well!

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7261
03/08/06 08:14 PM
03/08/06 08:14 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
quote:
So forgive me if your sterile environments leave you with nothing to do but post on nice cushy forums were errors are nowhere to be found, the church is running fine, and we can call things whatever we want, since everyone is on the same sheet of music.
I didn't understand this. What exactly is it you are asking for forgiveness for?

Regarding sanctification, it is also by faith. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ, and sanctification is a part of salvation. Therefore it is by faith. This is born out by the words of Jesus who said:

quote:
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (Acts 26:18)
Regarding this quote:

quote:
But notice here that obedience is not a mere outward compliance, but the service of love. The law of God is an expression of His very nature; it is an embodiment of the great principle of love, and hence is the foundation of His government in heaven and earth.
This brings out that obedience is the service of love, and that love is the principle of God's government, the expression of His very nature. Since salvation is by faith alone, we can conclude that by faith alone we are bound to God and His holy law. As the New Covenant promise puts it, God writes His law in our heart. That is, he so transforms us that it becomes our desire to do His will, which is to live the service of love, which are what His law is all about. We are transformed into His image, and becoming like Him, His law becomes the expression of our nature as well.

That's a great quote Bill! Glad you included it.

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7262
03/08/06 08:32 PM
03/08/06 08:32 PM
J
Jeff  Offline
Supporting Member 2007
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 231
Mississippi, USA
Bill, you have managed to convince me that I should avoid using the phrase "saved by faith alone" unless I also describe what comprises faith.

Jeff

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7263
04/21/06 03:39 PM
04/21/06 03:39 PM
DebbieB  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 53
United Kingdom
Quote:

There are a number of different topics now being discussed, so let's deal with them one at a time.

1) Are Ellen White's writings on par with the Bible?

Yes, they have the same Author, so we make a mistake when we try to pit one against the other. If you disagree with this, then may I propose that the real question would be to ask God why He sent another prophet if one was not needed.

Furthermore, what group since Apostalic time has had the entire truths set out in the Bible? This demonstrates the need of Him sending Ellen White.




Bill Wennell be careful!!!!! You are on very dangerous ground here! Revelation tells us clearly that there is no more to add to the bible! In fact we are cautioned that whoever adds to these words to him will be added the seven last plagues and whoever takes away from these words his name will be reoved from out of the book of life! By putting sister White in the level of the Bible you are on dangerous ground of adding to the scriptures!
Are we not allowed to have a prophet who EXPOUNDS on biblical truthes without bring in new truthes and thereby ADDING to the bible? Instead of condemning those who do not share your particular line of thought please consider this question: CAN the adventist truthes be proven from the Bible WITHOUT Mrs White? If your answer is no then I would really suggest that either you are making Mrs White a god OR that you are in the wrong church!
For myself I do believe that she was inspired in her writing, but also that she could make mistakes like anyone else and therefore I enjoy her works (now I'm old enough to appreciate them!), but I would have to disagree with you putting her on the level of the bible!
Of course in all ages and generations we have had ALL the truthes set out in the Bible, just we as fallible individuals have not made the use of such a wealthy resource! We rely on having others expund the scriptures for us. We want to be fed rather than to feed ourselves!
By the way if you believe so strongly about her being on the same level of the bible to you have a copy of the study bible put out the Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement created with E G White commentary in it?

Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7264
04/21/06 05:30 PM
04/21/06 05:30 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Ellen White didn't bring in any new truths? What about the idea that if one eats meat one won't be able to be translated? Is that truth in Scripture? Or how about that there are millions of worlds, which each had a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and only this world fell? Is this truth in Scripture?

Why would the fact that God used a prophet to communicate truth specific to our time imply that the Bible was being added to?

Please be clear that I am not wishing to agree (or disagree) with Bill's statements, nor am I trying to argue that Ellen White is equal with Scripture; I'm simply questioning the logic that if Ellen White brought us new truth, then she is adding to the Bible.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7265
04/21/06 06:20 PM
04/21/06 06:20 PM
Darius  Offline
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
If we would only accept the Bible for what it is -- the history of an ancient people -- instead of trying to convince people that it is the "inerrant word of God," we would never have to worry whether EGW's writings are equal to the Bible.


Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D.
No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7266
04/21/06 07:24 PM
04/21/06 07:24 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Tom,
I dont quite see how "there was a tree of good and evil on every inhabited planet in the universe" qualifies as "truth specific to our time"? Im not here questioning its truthfullness, only its usefullness.

Also, if Ellen, as you imply, added conditions of works to human salvation during the last generation. Is this not a bigger problem for her credibility than anything else?

Darius
Of course you are right, if there is nothing special about the bible then only a professor of literature would have reason to compare it to other books. However, if the bible is the only book on earth that contains pure information about who the creator of our universe is and how this creator relates to humans. Then we would have reason to be carefull of what other literature we compare it to.

Thus the question, is there more to the bible than to Homers Illiad or Pliny the youngers Epistles?

/Thomas


Galatians 2
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is so hazardous to take here a little and there a little. If you put the right little's together you can make the bible teach anything you wish. //Graham Maxwell
Re: Are the writtings of EGWhite equal to the BIBLE ? #7267
04/22/06 01:36 AM
04/22/06 01:36 AM
J
Jeff  Offline
Supporting Member 2007
Full Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 231
Mississippi, USA
Quote:

If we would only accept the Bible for what it is -- the history of an ancient people -- instead of trying to convince people that it is the "inerrant word of God," we would never have to worry whether EGW's writings are equal to the Bible.




If the Bible is just the history of an ancient people, then nothing says that the God they worshiped is real or especially that the God who died and rose to redeem us is real. If the Bible should really be written “bible”—as a mere collection of historical books—then there is no basis for our hope in the resurrection. “…and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.” (1Co 15:17 NASB)

I think you have to make some stand for faith, because if empirical evidence is your only basis for belief, you might as well be agnostic. If that is the case, I don’t see the point in any of this.

Jeff


[i]...Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.</i]
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