Daryl, nowhere do Peter, Paul, or John claim that their epistles were equal to Scripture. They always quoted Scripture to establish and to support the truths they taught. They never quoted themselves.

John
5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts
18:28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, [and that] publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Romans
15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Romans
16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Corinthians
15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

2 Timothy
3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter
1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter
3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Thomas, what you're saying about the SOP is a prophecy:

LDE 177, 178
One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan's banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God's Spirit.--3SM 84 (1903). {LDE 177.4}

The very last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the Spirit of God. "Where there is no vision, the people perish" (Prov. 29:18). Satan will work ingeniously, in different ways and through different agencies, to unsettle the confidence of God's remnant people in the true testimony.--1SM 48 (1890). {LDE 177.5}

The enemy has made his masterly efforts to unsettle the faith of our own people in the Testimonies. . . . This is just as Satan designed it should be, and those who have been preparing the way for the people to pay no heed to the warnings and reproofs of the Testimonies of the Spirit of God will see that a tide of errors of all kinds will spring into life.--3SM 83 (1890). {LDE 178.1}

It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures, and then the downward march to perdition. When the Testimonies, which were once believed, are doubted and given up, Satan knows the deceived ones will not stop at this; and he redoubles his efforts till he launches them into open rebellion, which becomes incurable and ends in destruction.--4T 211. {LDE 178.2}

But Peter, Paul, and John didn't say this in any of their writings, whereas Ellen White did, therefore, I think it is appropriate to heed her on this.

I'm not following this. Peter, Paul and John didn't say there writings should be checked by Scripture? Isn't this obvious? If they don't say something, it can't be true? Actually Paul *did* say what he communicated should be checked by Scripture:

11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.(Acts 17:11)

She obviously set the Bible as the test of her writings, whereas Peter, Paul, and John didn't, and they had the Old Testament Scriptures to say their writings should be tested against, but they didn't.

First of all, even if this were true, it would mean nothing. An argument from silence depends upon a reasonble assumption that the thing being assumed could be expected with near certainty to be present.

To give a example of a good argument from silence, consider the fact that the Sabbath is never mentioned in the New Testatment. Can we argue that because it is never stated in the New Testament that the Sabbath should be kept what we don't have to keep it? No, because if the Sabbath had been changed or abolished, there would have been tons of things written about it, even more than was written about circumcision, because of the Sabbath being held in such high regard by the Jews, being a part of the decalogue.

This is a good argument from silence. However, there is no reason to expect that Paul, Peter, etc. would state that there writings should be tested by Scripture. Everybody knew this. Just like everybody knew that the Sabbath should be kept. The fact that they didn't mention something that everybody knew to be true doesn't prove anything.

And this is besides the point that Paul *did* say, in Acts 17, that what he said should be tested by Scripture.

How do we know what books form Scripture? Does the Bible tell us? No. We know by tradition. God communicated truth, and a consensus was formed as to which books should comprise the Bible.

When Ellen White suggested her writings should be compared to Scripture, this is exactly what one would expect. The Bible is what the community holds to be the Word of God. Since God does not contradict Himself, if the Bible is true, her writings should agree with the Bible. It wouldn't make sense for her to suggest otherwise.

As far as ranking truth, this seems to me to be useless. If God has communicated truth, it isn't any more or less true because it is in the Bible, or was stated by Ellen White, or anybody else. Truth is truth. There is no ranking of truth.

We judge what is true by the Holy Spirit, in conjunction with sources we judge to be worthy to be used to judge truth by. Once we have determined that something is true, we accept that truth. The source is irrelevant as to whether a thing is true or not; it helps us form a conviction about the thing, but doesn't determine if the thing is true or not.

So when we say the Bible is above Ellen White or not, that would only be in reference to judging truth. For someone who isn't familiar with Ellen White, it doesn't make any sense to refer to her as a judge of truth; we use the Bible. This is appropriate for any interdenominational communications or dealings with people that we have. Once we form a conviction about Ellen White's writings, it becomes appropriate to use her as a source of truth.

Being convicted that a source is worthy to be used as a source of truth doesn't seem to have much correlation to it's actually being used to determine truth anyway. That is, many claim to believe the Bible, but don't believe what it says. Similarly with Ellen White, many claim to believe her writings, but ignore what she says whenever it doesn't agree with what they think.

Actually we all do this, with any source of truth. It's just a question of degree.

Human beings are really headstrong and ignorant. It's a wonder God can convert any of us.

Here's an interesting question arising from all of this interesting discussion:

Is something that is equal tested by something else that is also equal to it, and vice-versa?

As I have heard it, the "clear word" bible is a paraphrase made where the writings of Ellen are consistently allowed to determine how it should be written. If a) this is true, and b) Ellens books represent a source of truth that if not made equal with the bible will lead the person straight into the open arms of the devil, does it not follow then that the SDA denomination ought to be a "clear word" only denomination much in the same way that the JW are a "new world translation" only group?

/Thomas

DF: Is something that is equal tested by something else that is also equal to it, and vice-versa?

MM: Consider the Word and Jesus.

But even Christ Himself went with the It is written..... in the Scriptures in His encounter with the devil in the wilderness.

So scripture was good enough for Jesus but we require more?