Arnold, I agree with you. Whether we are resurrected in the first resurrection or translated alive when Jesus returns we must be free of our former defective traits of character. Our old man habits of sinning must be crucified. Otherwise we cannot go to heaven with Jesus.

This is true in cases like the thief on the cross and the 144,000. There can be no difference. Whether we die the day we are born again or years later our characters must be pure and holy (same as the 144,000) to go to heaven. This insight indicates that we are cleansed from all unrighteousness the moment we are born again.

Tom, it appears that you disagree?

Hmmm. I thought I had posted something, but I don't see it. So I'll try again.

There is a difference between being ready to meet Christ at death and being ready to meet Him when He comes in the clouds of glory. This is traditional SDA thought, by the way. The reason for the difference is tied into Christ's mission as our Heavenly High Priest in the antitypical Day of Atonement. Understanding what Christ is doing now is key to the preparation needed to meet Him.

Quote:

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The subject of the sanctuary and the investigative judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position and work of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs them to fill. (GC 488)

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Please note that this statement is not true in regards to being ready to meet Christ at death. That is, we do not need to understand Christ's work in the Most Holy Place in order to meet Him at death. But we do need to understand it in order to meet Him when He comes in the clouds of glory.

Tom, here's how the GC 488 quote goes where you left off:

GC 488, 489
Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God. Each must meet the great Judge face to face. How important, then, that every mind contemplate often the solemn scene when the judgment shall sit and the books shall be opened, when, with Daniel, every individual must stand in his lot, at the end of the days. {GC 488.2}

All who have received the light upon these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men. It concerns every soul living upon the earth. It opens to view the plan of redemption, bringing us down to the very close of time and revealing the triumphant issue of the contest between righteousness and sin. It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects and be able to give an answer to everyone that asketh them a reason of the hope that is in them. {GC 488.3}

The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon the cross. By His death He began that work which after His resurrection He ascended to complete in heaven. We must by faith enter within the veil, "whither the forerunner is for us entered." Hebrews 6:20. There the light from the cross of Calvary is reflected. There we may gain a clearer insight into the mysteries of redemption. The salvation of man is accomplished at an infinite expense to heaven; the sacrifice made is equal to the broadest demands of the broken law of God. Jesus has opened the way to the Father's throne, and through His mediation the sincere desire of all who come to Him in faith may be presented before God. {GC 489.1}

Tom, are you absolutely sure you want to maintain Sister White taught that the sanctuary message does not need to be understood by post-1844 believers in order to be saved in the first resurrection? The context of her quote is "at this time", that is, as of when she wrote it in the mid-1800's. She also wrote about the people who rejected the sanctuary message in her time. They were left in the Holy Place worshipping Satan while the others followed Jesus into the Most Holy Place.

EW 43
The enemies of the present truth have been trying to open the door of the holy place, that Jesus has shut, and to close the door of the most holy place, which He opened in 1844, where the ark is, containing the two tables of stone on which are written the ten commandments by the finger of Jehovah. {EW 43.1}

EW 56
I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. {EW 56.1}

EW 260, 261
Those who rejected the first message could not be benefited by the second; neither were they benefited by the midnight cry, which was to prepare them to enter with Jesus by faith into the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary. And by rejecting the two former messages, they have so darkened their understanding that they can see no light in the third angel's message, which shows the way into the most holy place. I saw that as the Jews crucified Jesus, so the nominal churches had crucified these messages, and therefore they have no knowledge of the way into the most holy, and they cannot be benefited by the intercession of Jesus there. Like the Jews, who offered their useless sacrifices, they offer up their useless prayers to the apartment which Jesus has left; and Satan, pleased with the deception, assumes a religious character, and leads the minds of these professed Christians to himself, working with his power, his signs and lying wonders, to fasten them in his snare. {EW 260.1}

I have a rather serious question. How is it that satan was in the Holy Place?
God Bless,
Will

Tom, in answer to your question, yes, I believe everyone could have been ready for the return of Jseus shortly after the passing of 1844 or anytime since then. The latter rain is what will or would have readied the world for the return of Jesus anytime since 1844.

Will, here's Sister White's own comment on Satan being in the Holy Place:

EW 92, 93
I also stated that "Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God." I will give another sentence from the same page: "I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne." Now this praying company was in this mortal state, on the earth, yet represented to me as bowed before the throne. I never had the idea that these individuals were actually in the New Jerusalem. Neither did I ever think that any mortal could suppose that I believed that Satan was actually in the New Jerusalem. But did not John see the great red dragon in heaven? Certainly. "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns." Rev. 12:3. What a monster to be in heaven! Here seems to be as good a chance for ridicule as in the interpretation which some have placed upon my statements. {EW 92.2}

MM, I also believe everyone could have been ready for the return of Jesus shortly after the passing of 1844, but that wasn't the question I asked. Here's the question I asked:

Quote:

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People have been dying continually since 1844. Do you think everyone who will be a part of the first resurrection who has died since Christ began His work in the MHP would have been ready to be translated had Christ come during their lifetime?

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Please answer *this* question. Just in case this isn't clear, I am asking if Jesus Christ had appeared say shortly after 1844, would these people who had never known or heard anything about Christ's work in the MHP have been ready to be translated (assuming they continued not knowing or hearing anything about Christ's work in the MHP)?

Tom, your assumption would not have been possible. The latter rain would have readied everyone for or against the seal of God. No one would have been uninformed or unprepared. They would have understood all the issues, especially including the sanctuary message. That's how it will be at the end of time and how it would have been back then.

Do you agree?

MM, you're not answering the question I'm trying to ask. I'll keep trying though .

What I want to know is if you believe that those who are born again but are not familiar with Christ's work in the Most Holy Place are ready *as they are* to meet Christ and be translated. Without anything else needing to happen, like the falling of the latter rain upon them.

There are millions of people, born again or otherwise, who will be in heaven who did not understand the sanctuary message. But none of them were ready, as they were, to be translated alive.

But before you try to draw a conclusion based on this answer let me hasten to add that if these very same people were living at the end of time, during the little time of trouble (before probation closes), they would have embraced the 3AMs and would have been translated alive.

The basis upon which people are saved in heaven, whether they are resurrected or translated, is the same – moral fitness. However, not everyone who makes it to heaven had the same amount of intellectual knowledge of certain Bible doctrines while they were living on earth. But they were all “morally” born again in the eyes of Jesus.