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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73719
05/08/06 03:25 PM
05/08/06 03:25 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
If a prisoner in death row has his death postponed, what was he saved from?
Death.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73720
05/08/06 03:27 PM
05/08/06 03:27 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
We must be careful with the idea that death is inherent to sin.
Why is this something we must be careful of? It seems to me that Scripture is full of references that death comes as the result of sin. Without sin, there would be no death. Do you believe that after Christ comes again, death will continue? (among fruitflies, for example, not people).
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73721
05/08/06 03:30 PM
05/08/06 03:30 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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Tom, if we will have hair in the new earth we will have death because hair is comprised of dead cells.
BTW, the Bible also says that the earth is fixed.
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D. No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73722
05/08/06 03:31 PM
05/08/06 03:31 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
What does that have to do with the human race? As I have said repeatedly, a failure to appreciate what happened in heaven and in Eden will cause problems with the Plan of Salvation.
This is an excellent point. What happened in heaven, and what happened in Eden?
I believe what happened is that in heaven Satan chose to believe a lie regarding God's character, and spread that lie to humanity in Eden. Sin causes us to believe things about God which are not true. This is how sin ensnares and kills us. Jesus came to reveal the truth about God. We are freed when we believe the truth which Christ revealed. The whole purpose of His ministry was to reveal God to us that we might be set right with God.
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73723
05/08/06 03:33 PM
05/08/06 03:33 PM
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OP
Dedicated Member
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
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If sin kills why is Lucifer still alive? Then again, how do we know he is still alive?
Darius A. Lecointe, J.D., Ph.D. No weapon formed against me shall prosper.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73724
05/09/06 03:38 AM
05/09/06 03:38 AM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The first death is not the result of sin, it is the result of God not allowing us to eat the fruit of the tree of life. And the second death will not be the result of sin, it will be the result of God punishing and destroying unsaveable sinners in the lake of fire.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73725
05/09/06 02:59 PM
05/09/06 02:59 PM
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5500+ Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
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Quote:
Quote:
If a prisoner in death row has his death postponed, what was he saved from?
Death.
Of course not! He will die anyway. He is only saved from death if he is granted pardon.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73726
05/09/06 03:40 PM
05/09/06 03:40 PM
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SDA Charter Member Active Member 2019
20000+ Member
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
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The first death is a sleep. Jesus did not come to save us from dying the first death. Instead, He came to make it possible for us to avoid being punished and destroyed in the lake of fire. If everyone is saved then there would be no such thing as a lake of fire. There would be no need of it. The fact people will die eternally in the lake of fire is evidence not everyone has been saved.
The reason God resurrects the unsaved, instead of leaving them in the grave, is because they have not paid the wages of sin. Otherwise, it would suffice to leave them in the grave. But sleeping in the grave does not pay the wages of sin. In other words, the first death does not satisfy the just and loving demands of the law. Unsaved sinners must be punished for their sins before they are destroyed eternally in the lake of fire.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73727
05/09/06 05:59 PM
05/09/06 05:59 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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Quote:
Quote: If a prisoner in death row has his death postponed, what was he saved from?
Death.
Of course not! He will die anyway. He is only saved from death if he is granted pardon.
Let's say you are crossing the street, not paying attention to where you are going. A man pushes you out of the way from an oncoming truck, which would have killed you had he not done so. Thirty years later, once again, you are crossing the street not paying attention, and get killed by an oncoming truck. Does this make it untrue that the old man saved you from death, giving you an extra thirty years of life?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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Re: We Have All Been Saved
#73728
05/09/06 06:04 PM
05/09/06 06:04 PM
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Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
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The first death is a sleep. Jesus did not come to save us from dying the first death. Instead, He came to make it possible for us to avoid being punished and destroyed in the lake of fire.
That's a negative way of looking at it, isn't it? Christ came to give us eternal life.
If everyone is saved then there would be no such thing as a lake of fire. There would be no need of it. The fact people will die eternally in the lake of fire is evidence not everyone has been saved.
The reason God resurrects the unsaved, instead of leaving them in the grave, is because they have not paid the wages of sin.
This can't be the reason because, to use your paradigm, the wages of sin were fully paid by Christ. Christ didn't pay the wages of only those who would accept Him, but for all.
Otherwise, it would suffice to leave them in the grave. But sleeping in the grave does not pay the wages of sin. In other words, the first death does not satisfy the just and loving demands of the law.
Christ did this.
Unsaved sinners must be punished for their sins before they are destroyed eternally in the lake of fire.
How are they punished?
Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
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