But this doesn't explain a very confusing thing. Why would post something from someone you believe is contradictory to substantiate a barbaric belief? What sense does that make?

Unquote.

Because that belief is based on her writings. Who else could give a view that is not written and mentioned in the Scripture but believed as the truth equal to the Scripture? EGW.

In His love

James S

Regarding the writings of EGW, I don't want this to go any further off topic than it already has.

All I am going to say here is that there are people who say the same thing about the Bible as you and others have said about the writings of EGW.

Any further discussion on this here will be made into a new topic.

James, I'm not following what you're saying, I'm sorry. If you think EGW is contradictory in her writings, then you should use Scripture to support your convictions. It doesn't make any sense for you to use her writings in this case.

You may have noticed that I choose to respond to others based on whatever source they are using, so if you build a case based on Scripture, I will respond with Scripture. If you build a case based on the Spirit of Prophecy, I will respond with Spirit of Prophecy quotes. This is because I believe the things which I believe to be true can be substantiated in either way.

Regarding the destruction of the wicked, I presented evidence from both the Scriptures as well as the Spirit of Prophecy to support my position. Based on what you have written, it is not at all clear to me whether you agree with my position or not. You speak of a view that is not written in Scripture. Are you talking about the position which I am arguing is not found in her writings either? So does this mean you are agreeing with the position I have shared?

Tom.

You see that I have opposed your view using the Scripture alone and my logic. But I could use EGW to counter your view when I think so,

I have been taught this “barbaric” idea as an SDA, I have read in EGW books translated in my language this “barbaric” idea, so, as an SDA, I though this is the legal view of the SDA church which become my view ever since I left my Catholic church..

And now here you and Darius and others said that this idea is barbaric and is not EGW teaching. So I confronted your idea with EGW quotes borrowing Daryl quotation, showing you that indeed this barbaric idea is “her very own” view that I was taught, accept and believe, which stand in contradiction with what you have proposed here.

By denying her view, is it not you and others that are contrary with her in this specific particular quote? Or, as usual do you have always a solution for this?

Some times a passage must be taken as literal and some times not. I take what EGW said as literal, as so I was taught, so I read, understood and heard among SDA’s.

I knew and had the same feeling and thought as you and others, that this idea look barbaric and has no mercy or love in it, but I think, this is what SDA believe and I could accept it since it is just the wages the wicked sown.

Otherwise hell loosed it power, who would be afraid of death in hell when it happened in a second or part of a second? And when Hell loosed it power, heaven loose it appeal. Who wants to go to heaven where everything is based on faith while the facts and realities of the world is much more fascinating and interesting and satisfying? Maybe heaven would be a boring life full with everyday prayers and singing and drinking water all the day and eat fruit all your life and listening to the music of worship all your life. What can I offer to worldly people if hell lost it power? Are they interested in eternal life which is a boring life to them? Better die than living a boring life and better enjoy your life here on earth as far and as much as you can while you live.

So, I must admit that the vision of my body burned for days or weeks in hell till nothing left, mean while till the smallest part left I still feel the pain, really makes me think to end there and heaven got more appeal. Imagine, just putting off my cigarette on my palm already sent such pain to my brain, more over to be burned alive for days where the pain remains till the last portion of my body left.

So, this barbaric vision is a good idea to share the Gospel of Christ thank EGW vision, don’t change it.

In His love

James S

James, to be clear, it is this statement which I asked you was barbaric:

"The important part that I'm interested in is if you believe that God will supernaturally keep the wicked alive so they can be boiled alive for a long enough time to pay in physical suffering for their sins."

There's certainly not Ellen White statement which says this. You have not produced any statement of hers which says this.

Quote:

---

Otherwise hell loosed it power, who would be afraid of death in hell when it happened in a second or part of a second? And when Hell loosed it power, heaven loose it appeal.

---

Are you being serious here? Heaven loses its appeal if hell is not barbaric? Is that the idea?

Isn't the appeal of heaven Jesus Christ? To know God and be with Him for eternity, as well as with those who know and love Him?

Quote.

Are you being serious here? Heaven loses its appeal if hell is not barbaric? Is that the idea? Isn't the appeal of heaven Jesus Christ? To know God and be with Him for eternity, as well as with those who know and love Him?

Unquote.

In fact, for many people that live by the flesh, who lives in the way of the world, Jesus Christ is a vague thing. When you asked them whether they want to go to heaven, they said “Yes, of course”, but they could not stop their night life, beer time, dance time, gambling, etc. Those who wildly dance in a café at Saturday night with beer in their hands are those who sang “hallelujah” the hardest in their church at Sunday morning. Many of them didn’t go to the cafes, but gambling at home with their friends and neighbors every day every night till Sunday morning, just stopped take a bath and go to church.

Two months ago before repenting, I used to go to cafes and gambling for years till morning at my friend home which is used also as a church, which just stopped 15 minutes before the communion start at Sunday morning or Wednesday evening. What a life?

To them I use two methods of evangelism:

1. Telling them that if Jesus allow them to enter heaven, after the latest one month stay they will ask Jesus to be returned to their home on earth, because they missed what they are used to live with; dancing, alcohol and beverages drinks, women in sexy clothing, gambling, rock music, which they could not found in heaven.
2. Telling them that they would be burned in hell and feel the pain till the last portion of their body (not for eternity which is their belief).

If Jesus is not of interest, let’s be burned in hell become their interest.

You must have always a plan B when preaching the Gospel, one of it will take their interest. Mostly these people want to go to heaven but they think they could reach it with living a worldly life for the flesh.

Eternal life what appeals them, but they want to get it with having fun and enjoy their life in the way of the flesh and of the world. Jesus Christ? Just a vague person that loves them and died for them. What they are afraid of is HELL.

In His love

James S

James, just because you convince people does not mean that what you told them is not false.

James, I totally agree with the view of heaven and hellfire you are sharing here. Thank you for holding fast to the truth. You are not alone in the truth. Sister White concurs completely. God uses two main sources to motivate us to obey Him – 1) Heaven, and 2) Hellfire. Here’s how she put it in Steps to Christ:

SC 21, 22
Oh, let us contemplate the amazing sacrifice that has been made for us! Let us try to appreciate the labor and energy that Heaven is expending to reclaim the lost, and bring them back to the Father's house. Motives stronger, and agencies more powerful, could never be brought into operation; the exceeding rewards for right-doing, the enjoyment of heaven, the society of the angels, the communion and love of God and His Son, the elevation and extension of all our powers throughout eternal ages--are these not mighty incentives and encouragements to urge us to give the heart's loving service to our Creator and Redeemer? {SC 21.3}

And, on the other hand, the judgments of God pronounced against sin, the inevitable retribution, the degradation of our character, and the final destruction, are presented in God's word to warn us against the service of Satan. {SC 21.4}