Redfog, certainly we often use flawed logic but the fact that we can identify flawed logic is the key. Obviously we know what good logic is. We have no such mechanism for identifying when a theologian is off the hook.

Your reasoning is flawed when you equate a literal six-day creation with a literal creation. A literal creation does not have to be in six-days.

Your reasoning is further flawed when you suggest that when the word faith is used in the Bible it is being used in the same way you use it here. In fact, faith in the Bible bears no resemblance to what you are speaking of. In the Bible faith is never a tool of belief. Faith is what enables you to move into the future and all men have the measure of faith, regardless of their ideology.

Darius how can you believe that the earth was created by God if you don't believe in the Biblical account of Creation? How can you even believe in God if the Bible is wrong on the Creation? Without faith in the Bible how can you make any statements of belief? Of course to you having faith in anything means you are gullible. I'd not want to live in your world, it must be scary.

Redfog

Redfog, you last posts essentially states that the Creator is a creation of the Bible because unless the biblical account is true He/She cannot exist. That is an appalling position to hold.

Darius tell me something, where did you learn about God and creation? Without the Bible how much would you know of these things?

The Creator is not the creation of the Bible, however it is in the Bible that I learn of the Creator. And with the Holy Spirit working on my heart I can have the assurance that the Bible is correct. Without a personal relationship with God all things spiritual are nothing but useless fluff.

Redfog

This "Creator is a creation of the Bible" would indeed be an end to the religion presented to us trough the bible.

But what if you reverse it into "the bible is a creation of the Creator"? Where would that leave you?

What does this mean?

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Jesus told us that few find the road to life, while many find the road to death. The apostles described to us the kind of people who have eternal life, and those who don't.

It seems that there is a distinction being made in this thread between being saved and receiving eternal life. Although salvation can be considered universal, no definitive evidence has been presented that shows eternal life to be universal. The closest to it is the hypothesis that someday, all the wicked will exchange the wages of sin for the gift of God.

Paul says that those who are in trespasses and sins are dead. He also says that we can become dead to sin and alive to God. As far as I can tell, that is a significant conversion.

Obviously, if one experiences that conversion, eternal life will give him the opportunity to rejoice in his salvation. On the other hand, if one does not experience that conversion, what good will his salvation do him if he's dead? The way I see it, even if "salvation" is universal, only those who have eternal life will reap its benefits.

Asygo, Jesus spoke about finding roads; He did not reference which road you follow to the end. I think we forget that Jesus is the greatest intelligence in the universe. We miss His fine distinctions then try to impose our kindergarten interpretations on Him.

Surely Jesus would make his teaching relative to our capacity to understand it. Would make little sence to first be born as a human and go trough all that Jesus went trough and then teach in such a way that people wouldnt understand it.

Who said we can't understand it? We have muddied the waters. It is not his fault we have refused to use the brains He created us with.