Darius,

Are you saying that the devil didn't hear what God told Adam?

Quote:

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Gen. 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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Or, are you saying that the devil knew about the Plan of Salvation, and that Christ would die in their place?

Which is it?

One thing I do agree with you, and that is both Adam and Eve were saved from instant death and the second death when the Plan of Salvation went into effect. Since they were then the whole human race, the whole human race was saved from instant death and from the second death.

Daryl, read the Gen. 3 account again. There is no question that Lucifer intended to woo the Woman away from the Creator. He responded to what the Woman told him and he was under no obligation to push the case of an authority he did not recognize. Only the Creator knew how mortality worked. Lucifer was contradicting what the Creator said but he was not lying because he did not know.

If you were told that the consequences of disobedience would be death, wouldn't you have asked what death was?

I am certain both Adam & Eve, and the devil knew that death was cessation of life, that death was the opposite of life.

I would not, unless I thought disobedience was inevitable. The original pair had not intention of straying. I notice you consistently pretend that Lucifer had not disobeyed before. Well, he had and he was still alive. As they say, actions speak louder than words.

What did Jesus have in mind when He said that Satan was a liar from the beginning?

His listeners did. The message was for them. I am certain you are able to figure out that when Jesus borrowed the well-known story about the rich man and Lazarus that He did not really mean that the rich man went to hell when He died, or do you?

Darius using logic is not the best way to approach the study of the Bible. So many things in the Bible are not logical, they have to be accepted on faith.

Let's take Creation. If we look at science today then it is very hard to believe that God created the earth in a literal week. (Or at all) So are we to do the logical thing and believe in man and his evidence or do we in faith believe God? It is mans word vs Gods. I chose to believe God. Same goes for the flood, man says the flood was localized thing. Who is right? Man or God? We can not approach Biblical study from a intellectual point but from a on our knees point. Intellectually the Bible is a bunch of half baked fairy tales, but when we are led by the Holy Spirit we will believe that the Bible was right and our faith will grow.

Redfog

Redfog, why would God give man the gift of logic if it was as flawed as you want us to believe? The very first verses of the Creation account scream out that the account should not be used the way so many Christians try to use it. What you call faith is nothing more than gullibility -- a willingness to accept a view regardless of the evidence. Whether the creation took place in six days is irrelevant to the fact that we are here and must live our lives to the fullest. None of us was there so none of us can speak with any real authority on the subject. But I would let you know that the Genesis account is as much man's word as are the conclusions of scientists. No one can read Genesis and say with a straight fact that the Creator told Moses how he created the universe. The very idea that six days were needed to create this single earth while all of the vast universe was created in one day (the fourth day) is ludicrous.

Here is a challenge: Please tell me on which of the six days of creation water was created.

Saved is the opposite of being lost. When someone gets lost someone goes out and saves him. When someone is kidnapped someones goes out and saves him. If someone is in difficulty someone goes out and saves him. The basic assumption is that the person is first deemed worthy of being saved and that the person did not voluntarily place himself in that difficult situation. The person may not even know he is in trouble. The person does not have to ask for salvation and acceptance is assumed. A lifeguard does not leave a drowning man because the drowning man resists the lifeguard's efforts. We know what it means to need salvation but we have allowed theologians to mess with our minds.

In this sinful world our logic is flawed. Well at least mine is, maybe yours is not:)

To say that faith=gullibility is a bit much don't you think?

Observe the following text:

Luke 17:19
And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy gullibility hath made thee whole.

I challenge you to go to a Bible search engine and look up all the texts that have the word faith in them and read them using the word gullibility. You will soon see how foolish this idea is.

What day was water made. You know Darius I really don't know, nor is it really that important to me. What certain things mean in the account of Creation I'll wait and ask God about. However the Creation account as a whole is very important, it is what the whole Bible hinges on. From Salvation to the Sabbath, without a literal creation nothing else in the Bible makes any sense. But then you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, and yet you quote the Bible....

So where do you put your faith? The Bible or your own logic? The Creator or the created? You have to have faith to believe in your own logic.

Redfog